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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But...this is exactly what Pure Mercury is doing...his economic models are tied to his own libertarian ideology, and he has embraced it with a True Believer's zeal. And we can't reason Merc out of a position that he wasn't reasoned into in the first place. Instead of exchanging ideas, Pure Mercuy is now looking for any way to insult, berate, nit-pick, and otherwise ad hominem off-topic attack his opponents while frequently just chanting the mantra, "I'm right, you're wrong."

    Debate on the Internet is a mug's game, I'll agree, but I'd also like to point out the hypocrisy in your post is laughably astounding.


    I am, in fact, on merc's side, so it seemed unkind of me to point out what you've observed. I won't deny those points, however. As Doc Holliday famously observed in a certain film, "My hypocrisy knows no bounds."

  2. #192
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Oh, so I can't give him a taste of his own medicine?

    As for you, I wouldn't be so haughty to speak with superiority if I were you after I observed you in another thread about race ignorantly mistaking dialect for "stupidity" then further embarrassing yourself by declaring that a person from another country wouldn't understand about differences in dialect.

    You're a pseudo-intellectual if I've ever met one. Pot meet kettle.

    P.S. citing professors with PhDs who are experts in their field just isn't quite the same as using "friends" as sources.
    When did I claim I was an intellectual? And what exactly does that mean? The only one throwing around credentials is you. Credentials don't mean much to me anyway...unless you're talking about a hard science (PhDs in physics command my attention, PhDs in sociology make me roll my eyes). But this is a political forum, not a science forum. Soft sciences are mostly bullshit.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #193
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    People seem to miss that increased poverty = increased crime and chaos.
    Unless you are talking about absolute poverty or endemic structural poverty, the negative effects of poverty are largely derived from the cultural characteristics that perpetuate it. This does not mean that most of those in relative poverty don't work hard or are morally deficient, simply that a.) they don't know how to take advantage of the opportunities available to them and b.) they are surrounded by a higher proportion of degenerates, the latter of whom have less to lose from overt criminality than their counterparts in richer communities, and this has negative effects in terms of community socialization. The point being, government intervention can only do so much under said circumstances (increased education spending targeted at schools in poor areas, for instance, has only marginal positive effects, at best-look at Washington D.C.), and may even contribute to cultural characteristics that perpetuate the problem and make it worse (since anecdotal evidence has already been brought into the equation, my mother was a case worker in Savannah during late sixties-she says many aspects of the Great Society programs actually made things worse).

    Where on earth did this thread start to deviate so drastically from the OP, anyway?

  4. #194
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    When did I claim I was an intellectual? And what exactly does that mean? The only one throwing around credentials is you. Credentials don't mean much to me anyway...unless you're talking about a hard science (PhDs in physics command my attention, PhDs in sociology make me roll my eyes). But this is a political forum, not a science forum. Soft sciences are mostly bullshit.
    Grossly ridiculous Te bias.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #195
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    When did I claim I was an intellectual? And what exactly does that mean? The only one throwing around credentials is you. Credentials don't mean much to me anyway...unless you're talking about a hard science (PhDs in physics command my attention, PhDs in sociology make me roll my eyes). But this is a political forum, not a science forum. Soft sciences are mostly bullshit.
    You're getting worse and worse with the stereotypical thinking...first people with accent, now people that don't study hard science...tranquilizers much?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #196
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You're getting worse and worse with the stereotypical thinking...first people with accent, now people that don't study hard science...tranquilizers much?
    Try not to take it personally.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Basically the idea is that the youngins think that they don't have to work if they don't like the work, they don't think they have to work hard, all the time.
    Personally, I don't think these are bad things. If we all have our purposes/callings in life, just working for work's sake may not be the best thing to do. Some people are forced to work due to circumstances, but if you are not, why force it?

    Also, it's a clich, but still rings true. How many people on their death beds say they wish they spent more time at the office?

    Good relationships, meaningful work, enjoyable leisure all contribute to a good life. Working hard "all the time" does not.

    Do you think there is a difference in the generations?

    Yes, I think there are.

    Gen Y'ers seem to put their values above monetary concerns...sort of like the Boomers did when they were young.

    The difference is Gen Y'ers are already cynical about it. But still hold their values above monetary concerns.

    Frankly, the Boomers are the screw-up generation. This is not a judgment of individual Boomers. Some have been quite responsible. However, as a generation, they've mishandled, well, basically everything. Huge deficits, the worst economy since the 30s, horrendous health-care costs, outsourcing of even high-skilled jobs, lack of technological competitiveness, further proliferation of nuclear arms, exorbitant executive compensation during bad economics times (guess which generation makes up the executive ranks)...I could go on an on.

    As far as sense of entitlement, I think this is a problem shared by the Boomers, the gen X'ers and gen Y'ers. Seriously, what exemplifies entitlement more than an executive that gets paid ridiculous amounts of money for running a company into the ground?

    What's worse it that the Boomers are basically done. Their legacy has been wrought and it is rotten.

    The Gen X'ers were initially branded as the "slacker" generation, but at this point are probably the hardest working generation still in the work force. But then again it is probably true that people in their 30's and 40's generally are the hard working bunch, because they are not nearing retirement, and they have mouths to feed.

    The jury is still out on them. They have time to take over the reigns, and we'll see how well they do when in charge.

    Anything you can say about Gen Y'ers in the workforce remains mostly speculation. Many are still working entry level jobs or jobs that are barely into management, and many are not yet in the workforce. And those that have advanced past that stage already cannot really be called "lazy" can they?

    As a generation, in terms of perspective, Gen Y'ers seem to have a generally more global perspective than the previous generations. They often find they have more in common with people their own age from other cultures than they do with people in their own cultures of different age.

    Is this a good or bad thing?

    That is for history to decide. But I would rather be hopeful for the future than gloomy.

    I think the global perspective and a focus on the "good life" instead of keeping up appearances or making money are both good things.

    How is it going to affect American companies?

    I think companies will have to start relying far less on compensation, and more on aligning values to their workers to get the top performers.

    Corporations will no-longer be able to ask for a workers' souls, but rather just their time and effort...kinda like it used to be.

    These two things seem to be at odds with each other, but I think it is a recipe for making the types of organizations the Boomers initially wanted to make but failed to do.

    And a bonus question:
    Why do so many people live in their parent's basements now?

    Hard economic times is one reason.

    Longer times needed for training is another.

    Waiting for "good" work may be another.

    I'm not in a real good position to answer this since I essentially moved out at 18...and for real when I was 21. Also, I am on the border between Gen X and Gen Y.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  8. #198
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Try not to take it personally.
    I don't study sociology, so there's nothing to take personally
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    ECONOMIC value! Why is this such a hard concept to understand?
    Because that's a very short sighted view. You're judging value from the perspective of a single corporation rather than from society as a whole.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Unless you are talking about absolute poverty or endemic structural poverty, the negative effects of poverty are largely derived from the cultural characteristics that perpetuate it. This does not mean that most of those in relative poverty don't work hard or are morally deficient, simply that a.) they don't know how to take advantage of the opportunities available to them and b.) they are surrounded by a higher proportion of degenerates, the latter of whom have less to lose from overt criminality than their counterparts in richer communities, and this has negative effects in terms of community socialization. The point being, government intervention can only do so much under said circumstances (increased education spending targeted at schools in poor areas, for instance, has only marginal positive effects, at best-look at Washington D.C.), and may even contribute to cultural characteristics that perpetuate the problem and make it worse (since anecdotal evidence has already been brought into the equation, my mother was a case worker in Savannah during late sixties-she says many aspects of the Great Society programs actually made things worse).

    Where on earth did this thread start to deviate so drastically from the OP, anyway?
    You raise some interesting points. I would genuinely like to hear about some of your mother's experiences, etc. if you would like to send me a pm that is more detailed on this topic.

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