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  1. #151
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    We did have taxes 100 years ago ... because that would be 1909 and smack dab in the middle of progressivism...but actually the only taxes in the United States even following the Civil War were import tariffs. There were no income taxes at that point. And yeah, I learned that from a history book and from someone who has a Masters in History with a specialization in American History and a J.D. in law.
    You sure like to tout the credentials of your "friends". I guess you don't realize that it makes you sound like the annoying kid on the playground saying "my dad can beat up your dad".

    Why don't you try citing actual sources instead of people?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #152
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You sure like to tout the credentials of your "friends". I guess you don't realize that it makes you sound like the annoying kid on the playground saying "my dad can beat up your dad".

    Why don't you try citing actual sources instead of people?
    The bigger issue is the whole "being wrong" part.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #153
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The bigger issue is the whole "being wrong" part.
    Well, if she did research on her own instead of relying on hearsay from her "friends", she might realize that her "friends" aren't perfect and don't know everything, and that some of the things she believes to be true...aren't.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #154
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Actually, the United States was behind the curve when it came to granting the key individual rights, like abolishing slavery, granting women voting rights, black voting rights, civil rights etc... compared to other Western nations, which progressed sooner.
    Only a few Western nations, all with relatively small populations, instituted women's suffrage before the United States. As for slavery, abolition efforts were complicated by the large slave population and the dependence on a plantation economy of half the country, but its certainly the biggest black mark on American history.

    In any event, the United States was behind the curve when it came to racial equality under the law (an issue no country in Western Europe had to seriously contend with, making progress on that front much easier) not the the recognition and celebration of key individual rights. Western Europe never has caught up with us concerning core rights such as freedom of speech, something even the likes of Noam Chomsky has admitted.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 11-01-2009 at 05:36 PM. Reason: more to add

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You sure like to tout the credentials of your "friends". I guess you don't realize that it makes you sound like the annoying kid on the playground saying "my dad can beat up your dad".

    Why don't you try citing actual sources instead of people?
    I believe that a college history class and a professor is a more reputable source than Pure Mercury and you, who apparently suffer from the delusion that you know everything just because you've read some library books on libertarianism, the warped version of revisionist historical "facts" that libertarians often assert, and that it should just be obvious to everyone simply because you can make pseudo-intellectual snide comments and tell people that they sound stupid, or like children. Yeah, that makes you seem incredibly smart and mature yourself.

    The Unfinished Nation: A Brief Interactive History of the American People, Volume II: From 1865

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Well, if she did research on her own instead of relying on hearsay from her "friends", she might realize that her "friends" aren't perfect and don't know everything, and that some of the things she believes to be true...aren't.
    Many things that you believe to be true aren't. The scary thing about you people is that you believe that political opinions and libertarian conspiracy theories are "facts."

  7. #157
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I believe that a college history class and a professor is a more reputable source than Pure Mercury and you, who apparently suffer from the delusion that you know everything just because you've read some library books on libertarianism, the warped version of revisionist historical "facts" that libertarians often assert, and that it should just be obvious to everyone simply because you can make pseudo-intellectual snide comments and tell people that they sound stupid, or like children. Yeah, that makes you seem incredibly smart and mature yourself.

    The Unfinished Nation: A Brief Interactive History of the American People, Volume II: From 1865

    Or you can just admit you were incorrect about the history of the federal income tax.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Or you can just admit you were incorrect about the history of the federal income tax.
    The United States did not have a constitutional income tax as we know it until 1913. For you to insult a Canadian person for not knowing that (because according to you the whole freakin' world should know obscure facts about the United States implied in your flippant "read a history book"...tell me, how much do you know about the history of Canada? Mexico? Iran?)

    An average person - especially a foreigner - would not acknowledge that there was an income tax in the US before 1913 unless they were especially obsessed with US History.

    As Simulated World duly noted, you have a serious issue with seeing things as "wrong" and "right" according to certain number of statistics, but you don't have the ability to see things within context, through shades of gray, and why the realistic application of the things you assert have very little basis in human reality.

  9. #159
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The United States did not have a constitutional income tax as we know it until 1913. For you to insult a Canadian person for not knowing that (because according to you the whole freakin' world should know obscure facts about the United States implied in your flippant "read a history book"...tell me, how much do you know about the history of Canada? Mexico? Iran?)
    Quite a bit about Canada and Mexico. Only the basics of the Persian Empire and the 19th and 20th Century about Iran. Canada happens to be a particularly interesting to me.

    If you didn't want me to come back and correct you about the income tax point, why did you try to contradict me about it?


    An average person - especially a foreigner - would not acknowledge that there was an income tax in the US before 1913 unless they were especially obsessed with US History.
    They would not acknowledge that because they were probably ignorant of the fact. I am sure the vast majority of Americans wouldn't know when our income tax was instituted unless they happened to have just learned it in middle school for a test.


    As Simulated World duly noted, you have a serious issue with seeing things as "wrong" and "right" according to certain number of statistics, but you don't have the ability to see things within context, through shades of gray, and why the realistic application of the things you assert have very little basis in human reality.
    The issue at hand here is a FACT. There is no gray area involved. There is no argument. You could have been gracious about it, but you were not. You even listed credentials of a teacher and cited a book. What were you expecting, given that I knew you to be mistaken?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Quite a bit about Canada and Mexico. Only the basics of the Persian Empire and the 19th and 20th Century about Iran. Canada happens to be a particularly interesting to me.
    Really?? Can you sit here and tell me little details about Canadian income tax in the 19th century?

    If you didn't want me to come back and correct you about the income tax point, why did you try to contradict me about it?
    Because the condecension with which you responded to a Canadian citizen about an obscure fact in US History was completely childish and unnecessary. You acted as though simply EVERYONE should know about off-the-books income taxes implemented and outlawed in the 19th century. To insult someone for not knowing something that is not common knowledge is something that you should be called out on, because it makes you look petty and really has nothing to do with the argument at hand.

    You've taken a thread about the work force and turned it into your domineering, opinionated manifesto about your extra special form of libertarianism which has nothing to do with the Libertarian party. Essentially you're being nasty to people for not thinking exactly like you and specializing in what you specialize in.






    The issue at hand here is a FACT. There is no gray area involved. There is no argument. You could have been gracious about it, but you were not. You even listed credentials of a teacher and cited a book. What were you expecting, given that I knew you to be mistaken?
    The only FACT here is that the official income tax was instituted in 1913.

    And as for being gracious? Please. You've spent this entire thread calling people stupid and insane just because they don't agree with you, along with being condescending in general.

    I'm not gracious to people who are arrogant and self-righteous.

    You're declaring that the libertarian government *as you see it*
    (not even as the Libertarian party espouses it) should be the only form of government in the world, and anyone who doesn't see that according to you is stupid, childish, or wrong. It's not a very convincing argument, to say the least, and your attitude toward other people's ideas and opinions is so disrespectful that it's absolutely rich for you expect anyone to be gracious to you in return.

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