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Thread: Do-Gooders

  1. #21
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Why do people seem to hate them?

    People like animal lovers, environmentalists, and social workers seem to be despised in some communities. Why is that?
    Do gooders remind everyone else of our inadequecies. For instance, my inadequacy in my inability to spell correctly.

    I think in those cases, even if the do-gooder is gloating, you are 75% in the wrong. It's also a social contract, do-gooder does good and gets to gloat, you hate them for it but let them gloat because you are relieved someone else did the dirty work.

    If there were no do-gooders (as opposed to trouble makers and busy bodies) in the world, we'd be even more screwed than we already are.

    Social workers get a bad rap because they are simultaneously viewed suspiciously as an agent of "the man" and as a scapegoat for not single-handledly solving the problems of poverty, racism, and discrimination and not being even more of a martyr than they are.

    Also, let's define 'do-gooder'. There are those whose PERSONALITY you LIKE and those whose PERSONALITY you DON'T LIKE. There are those who METHODS you APPROVE OF and those whose METHODS you DISAPPROVE. And there are those whose INTENTIONS you BELIEVE and those whose INTENTIONS you DON'T BELIEVE or LOOK DOWN upon.

    As far as 'environmentalist' or 'animal lover' there is a HUGE difference between PETA and the ASPCA, between people planting trees, people living in trees to prevent clear cutting, and people blowing up SUVs to save trees (?)

    So basically, lots of reasons to hate people.

    Personally, I'm a lover, not a hater.



    Actually, I take that back. I'm not a lover, or hater.

    I'm a napper.

    :zzz:

  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    As a type 1/2 in the Enneagram, I am practically fated to be considered one of those do-gooders(whether I deserve it or not), so I think about this subject often.

    First of all, I'm assuming that you aren't taking about jerks that pose as good people, because it's obvious enough why people hate them.
    I instead assume you are talking about people with good intentions that create good results.
    Why would anyone hate them?

    I would attribute it to four main reasons.
    1 Pride.
    2 Envy.
    3 Ignorance.
    4 Immorality.

    I will now elaborate.

    1:
    A proud person really hates to have one of their flaws pointed out.
    They also hate it when they require help.
    Then comes along the do-gooder, likely to point out a person.s flaws, and then offer help.
    It is absolutely amazing what stupid things people will do out of pride.
    If you've ever seen someone challenge a bet, or accept a dare, then you know what I mean.
    Drugs can be an example. Even a person who in every way hates their own smoking habit may to be too proud to quit. Quitting would imply conceding, and there's a good chance it would require help. So much for that.
    The problem is that do-gooders are not likely to let these things pass, so they will make attempts to correct problems that will seem threatening to certain peoples' pride.


    2:
    Supposing this do-gooder is on a roll, and the people around him/her appreciate that, the seeds of envy will be planted.
    People who do not have the integrity to be nice or do good things, will still probably want the credit that a genuinely good person receives, and thus conspire against do-gooders, in the way that envious people often do.
    Enough said.

    3:
    Ignorant hatred toward good people happens on account of false do-gooders.
    A very good example would be PETA. PETA is a group of extremely annoying and counter-productive people that claims to be good.
    You could also take those raving evangelists on TV as an example.
    The problem is, many people that grow up hearing about this will come to associate the idea of "good" with those insufferable people.
    As a result, they'll end up hating anyone that claims to be, aims to be, or is considered good in any way.

    4:
    Some people really are just lacking a concept of morals.
    Sociopaths, narcissists, and those who border on such disorders, will consider good intentioned people an obstacle to getting what they want.
    Sometimes, clashes between a moral person and an immoral person actually do happen in real life, instead of just in story books.


    So there you have it in a nutshell, Kiddo.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  3. #23
    Senior Member vince's Avatar
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    I think it mainly has to do with ignorance, as mentioned by some fellow members.

    It is said that people who see things as they really are tend to be unhappy. I think that's true. I think the reverse is also true : meaning that ignorant people are generally happier. Ignorance is bliss. That kind of explains why people dislike others pointing out inadequacies. It bursts their bubble. That's the main reason imo.

    I don't judge anyone, since that's not my place, but I personally prefer being unhappy if that means I am objective in my opinions.

    So, I definitely lean towards environmentalists & the likes.
    The golden rule in my life at this point is : Regardless if a minority is right or wrong, the majority is ALWAYS wrong.

  4. #24
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    It is said that people who see things as they really are tend to be unhappy. I think that's true. I think the reverse is also true : meaning that ignorant people are generally happier. Ignorance is bliss. That kind of explains why people dislike others pointing out inadequacies. It bursts their bubble. That's the main reason imo.

    I don't judge anyone, since that's not my place, but I personally prefer being unhappy if that means I am objective in my opinions.

    So, I definitely lean towards environmentalists & the likes.
    The golden rule in my life at this point is : Regardless if a minority is right or wrong, the majority is ALWAYS wrong.
    Has anyone told you you're a damn commie? 'Cause you are.

    Hahahahaha.

    Actually, I think anarchist is more appropriate.

    As far as the "I'd rather be unhappy and right" (because let's face it, that's what it means) -- I see, so you're one of those people.

    I also agree to each their own, and people have a range of emotions, but I think either extreme of feeling you have to be happy or you have to be unhappy to 'live correctly' is a prison, it's hampering, and it makes communication harder.

    And I can identify with the frustration and even moral outrage at the complacency that entitlement affords majority. Is that what you refer to?

    I also believe in 'truth in the moment', asking hard questions, looking honestly at the situation, and acknowledging your true feelings without judgement.

    And yes, I agree that self-denial can make some wacky head-in-the-clouds people.

    Having said that, I do have a problem with a particular kind of downer -- a very specific combination of cynicism and gloom.

    Some people feel that if you really are intelligent and can see LIFE for what it is then you automatically must see the gravity of the situation, i.e., everyone else's stupidity/ignorance horrible systems of oppression that are inevitable and unchangeable and you automatically must get depressed/angry as state of being .

    And you can flip this around (isn't this a logical fallacy? c'mon debaters, chime in) to say that you are depressed and unhappy as a state of being ergo you must be so much more enlightened than the rest of the sheep.

    I don't think this is what you said necessarily and I have no idea from RL or even your posts what your fuller take is on this -- but I do often encounter a kind of smugness in certain downers. It's the self-pity of Cassandra coupled with apocolyptic righteousness and sense of intellectual and/or moral superiority.

  5. #25
    Senior Member vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Has anyone told you you're a damn commie? 'Cause you are.

    Hahahahaha.
    Hehe. Sure I am. But no one ever told me.

    Over here (Europe) people also aren't as obsessed with commies as they are in the States, which is probably 1 reason why no one ever told me. I'm under the impression that every truely outspoken liberal idea is considered as communism overseas.
    Take Bad Boys 2 for instance. That movie is bascially about 2 cops shooting at everything that moves, literally leaving bodybags on the freeway & in the last 2 minutes of it, out of the blue, they blame everything on Castro. Seriously! And in the same breath people blame Chavez for using propaganda. /End rant

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Actually, I think anarchist is more appropriate.
    Probably. What's in a name?
    I'm not entirely in favor of anarchy though. I need structure in my own life for instance. But if it takes anarchy to take down a system that exploits the poor & enslaves the middle class, then by all means...
    This requires an alternative though. I'm against anarchy for the sake of anarchy. (do i say this right ?)

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    ...

    And I can identify with the frustration and even moral outrage at the complacency that entitlement affords majority. Is that what you refer to?
    Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I also believe in 'truth in the moment', asking hard questions, looking honestly at the situation, and acknowledging your true feelings without judgement.

    And yes, I agree that self-denial can make some wacky head-in-the-clouds people.

    Having said that, I do have a problem with a particular kind of downer -- a very specific combination of cynicism and gloom.

    Some people feel that if you really are intelligent and can see LIFE for what it is then you automatically must see the gravity of the situation, i.e., everyone else's stupidity/ignorance horrible systems of oppression that are inevitable and unchangeable and you automatically must get depressed/angry as state of being .

    And you can flip this around (isn't this a logical fallacy? c'mon debaters, chime in) to say that you are depressed and unhappy as a state of being ergo you must be so much more enlightened than the rest of the sheep.

    I don't think this is what you said necessarily and I have no idea from RL or even your posts what your fuller take is on this -- but I do often encounter a kind of smugness in certain downers. It's the self-pity of Cassandra coupled with apocolyptic righteousness and sense of intellectual and/or moral superiority.
    Yeah I relate to what you say here. I've been in that place. I've done so much drugs, for instance, to the point where I was almost drowning in self-pity. But last few years I've been crawling out of that hole, and I try to focus on the positive things.
    I prefer walks with my dog now, just to mention something, over collective projects and responsibilities. I kind of let go my collective awareness for the sake of self protection.

    And you're definitely right that one doesn't need to be depressed to see truth. It's just the way I see it, truth anno 2007 and everything in the entire history of mankind tends to be tormenting. Be it not exclusively.

  6. #26
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I detest do-gooders who constantly remind you of their good deeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But how could you hate such a pretty face?
    Ugg! Hate her!
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  7. #27
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    I detest do-gooders who constantly remind you of their good deeds.

    Ugg! Hate her!
    Umm...is she really a do gooder so much as a right-winger?

    Isn't she like a proper southern lady version of Bill O'Reilly.

    I only watch TV tangentially (actually, I only watch The Office, Lost, reality TV, TLC, DHC, Style, Fine, HGTV, Logo, PBS, and Cartoon Network)...so no Fox) She's on Fox right?

  8. #28
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Umm...is she really a do gooder so much as a right-winger?

    Isn't she like a proper southern lady version of Bill O'Reilly.

    I only watch TV tangentially (actually, I only watch The Office, Lost, reality TV, TLC, DHC, Style, Fine, HGTV, Logo, PBS, and Cartoon Network)...so no Fox) She's on Fox right?
    My response wasn't supposed to be connected to NG's pic, I just wanted Jennifer to know that I dislike her immensely too. Is she a do-gooder? I'm sure she'd like you to believe she is.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #29
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    I wonder if Jennifer made that comment just to get my goat (pun intended ). Afterall, I did start this thread.

  10. #30
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    My response wasn't supposed to be connected to NG's pic, I just wanted Jennifer to know that I dislike her immensely too. Is she a do-gooder? I'm sure she'd like you to believe she is.
    Without doubt, whoever she is she believes she's a do-gooder.

    Everyone who has a social agenda is, in his or her own mind, a do-gooder. Even the Ku Klux Klan, wrong as they are, believe that they work to advocate a better world.

    That's where the difficulty comes in... nobody can agree on exactly what "doing good" means. And anyone who is willing to stand up and say "My agenda is more important than your agenda" had better stop and take careful stock of themselves, because they've just uttered what could easily become a bulletproof justification for use of whatever means is necessary to see that their personal agenda dominates.

    Every special-interest group is a consortium of do-gooders at some level.

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