User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 84

  1. #61
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The only time I get terse (and approaching nasty, on occasion) is when someone like ajblaise is being willfully annoying or misrepresenting people's beliefs/arguments.
    But libertarians are losers.

  2. #62
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

    Default

    according to you

  3. #63
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    I'll let the mods deal with that.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #64
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That was addressed to the unnamed people who made that argument, not to that poster. "I have also heard of people not wanting it legal. . ." I don't see how it would be poor Netiquette, unless iamathousandapples was obviously one of those people making the argument. The only time I get terse (and approaching nasty, on occasion) is when someone like ajblaise is being willfully annoying or misrepresenting people's beliefs/arguments. I make it a point not to call all left-wingers "idiots," even though I believe that basic understanding of economics would make many of them reevaluate their views.

    P.S. Please do not capitalize libertarian unless you are referring to a member of the Libertarian Party. I know it seems picayune, but there is a difference, just as Republican and republican are two different things.
    Oh well, fair enough about the "dumbest argument" comment. I might point out, though, that some people place internal conceptions of fairness (mostly Ji doms) above the natural economic order of things. Assuming that most liberals simply misunderstand the basic nature of economics is pretty insulting in and of itself; they just don't value the same economic ideals that you do. For liberals, equality is often placed as a higher value than economic freedom, so in this mindset lots of government regulation of economics makes sense.

    As I said, I think by directly implying that liberalism is incompatible with a basic understanding of economics you are implicitly insulting liberals and painting away a vast and very nuanced school of thought with one broad stroke.

    Doesn't that strike you as, I don't know...

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    misrepresenting people's beliefs/arguments
    ?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #65
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Oh well, fair enough about the "dumbest argument" comment. I might point out, though, that some people place internal conceptions of fairness (mostly Ji doms) above the natural economic order of things. Assuming that most liberals simply misunderstand the basic nature of economics is pretty insulting in and of itself; they just don't value the same economic ideals that you do. For liberals, equality is often placed as a higher value than economic freedom, so in this mindset lots of government regulation of economics makes sense.

    As I said, I think by directly implying that liberalism is incompatible with a basic understanding of economics you are implicitly insulting liberals and painting away a vast and very nuanced school of thought with one broad stroke.

    Doesn't that strike you as, I don't know...

    ?

    No, it doesn't. Being a leftwinger doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't know about economics. Again, you must read exactly what I wrote. I firmly believe that MANY PEOPLE who identify as liberals would actually lean more centrist or libertarian if they had more education about economics. I would talk to people in college about their political beliefs, and they'd usually discuss civil liberties and not liking Bush and Co., etc. However, if you prod further, a lot of them didn't grasp basic things about political economy, such as why deficits were bad, comparative advantage, and many other things.

    Also, I think that you are a little too sanguine about the economic knowledge of left-wingers, but that is a different argument.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #66
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, it doesn't. Being a leftwinger doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't know about economics. Again, you must read exactly what I wrote. I firmly believe that MANY PEOPLE who identify as liberals would actually lean more centrist or libertarian if they had more education about economics. I would talk to people in college about their political beliefs, and they'd usually discuss civil liberties and not liking Bush and Co., etc. However, if you prod further, a lot of them didn't grasp basic things about political economy, such as why deficits were bad, comparative advantage, and many other things.

    Also, I think that you are a little too sanguine about the economic knowledge of left-wingers, but that is a different argument.
    I honestly don't even feel like getting into this, but I'd love to point out that Austrian economic theory is frequently embraced by Libertarians, and it is also almost always denied publication in respectable publications about economics because it cannot be proven in reality.

    So who doesn't understand economics?

  7. #67
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I honestly don't even feel like getting into this, but I'd love to point out that Austrian economic theory is frequently embraced by Libertarians, and it is also almost always denied publication in respectable publications about economics because it cannot be proven in reality.

    So who doesn't understand economics?
    First of all, I already asked once about the small-l libertarian thing in this thread. Let's get that one right, please.

    Secondly, Austrian economists are hardly a majority of libertarians, and you're the first person to bring Austrian economics up in this thread, so I don't really know where you're going here. Milton Friedman was a non-Austrian libertarian economist. Would any respectable economic publication leave him out? How about Objectivist friend-of-Ayn-Rand Alan Greenspan?

    Thirdly, what exactly do you mean by "not proven in reality?"

    Finally, the Austrians are experiencing probably their most interest since the days of von Mises right now, given the popularity of Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, etc.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #68
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, it doesn't. Being a leftwinger doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't know about economics. Again, you must read exactly what I wrote. I firmly believe that MANY PEOPLE who identify as liberals would actually lean more centrist or libertarian if they had more education about economics. I would talk to people in college about their political beliefs, and they'd usually discuss civil liberties and not liking Bush and Co., etc. However, if you prod further, a lot of them didn't grasp basic things about political economy, such as why deficits were bad, comparative advantage, and many other things.

    Also, I think that you are a little too sanguine about the economic knowledge of left-wingers, but that is a different argument.
    I think economic ignorance is pretty ubiquitous across the board in this country, regardless of political bearing. You're making a subtle implication that conservatism is somehow fundamentally a more "educated" attitude than liberalism, whether you recognize it or not.

    I wonder about how educated the average American conservative is regarding economics. Somehow I doubt you want to go there.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #69
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I think economic ignorance is pretty ubiquitous across the board in this country, regardless of political bearing. You're making a subtle implication that conservatism is somehow fundamentally a more "educated" attitude than liberalism, whether you recognize it or not.
    I wouldn't trust most conservatives to be able to explain economics very well, either, although the average one could probably at least explain why higher taxes are bad for economic growth. Also, I would bet that the United States is probably better than most countries when it comes to teaching econ. However, the median American libertarian has almost certainly read/studied economics more extensively than the median conservative or liberal (it's part of the nature of those attracted to the philosophy), and self-identified libertarians have a higher percentage of postgraduate education than liberals or conservatives. I don't mean that to be self-serving, but it is factual.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #70
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I wouldn't trust most conservatives to be able to explain economics very well, either, although the average one could probably at least explain why higher taxes are bad for economic growth. Also, I would bet that the United States is probably better than most countries when it comes to teaching econ. However, the median American libertarian has almost certainly read/studied economics more extensively than the median conservative or liberal (it's part of the nature of those attracted to the philosophy), and self-identified libertarians have a higher percentage of postgraduate education than liberals or conservatives. I don't mean that to be self-serving, but it is factual.
    That's fine, but it's a difference in basic values that results in these political differences between people, not just simple lack of education. There are also higher rates of atheism among people with more education, but it wouldn't be fair of me to implicitly call religion uneducated on that basis and imply that most religious people would give up their faith if they studied a little science.

    That's insulting, condescending and self-righteous and I hope you see why.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. [E5] Hope I'm in the right place!
    By SurrealisticSlumbers in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-02-2017, 03:29 AM
  2. Stepping in the shoes of the opposite sex
    By Dreamer in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 12-19-2016, 06:52 PM
  3. Am I in the right place?
    By cosmicdancer in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-14-2009, 02:36 AM
  4. [Other] New group in the Triangle (NC) for NFs
    By proudphoenix in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-23-2008, 06:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO