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View Poll Results: Which statement do you believe is true about global warming?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • Global warming isn't happening.

    8 9.64%
  • Global warming is happening, but is neither threatening nor man-made.

    15 18.07%
  • Global warming is happening, and is threatening, but not man-made.

    8 9.64%
  • Global warming is happening, is not threatening, but is man-made.

    5 6.02%
  • Global warming is happening and is both threatening and man-made.

    35 42.17%
  • I have no idea which is true.

    12 14.46%
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  1. #31
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Global warming 'technically' isn't happening, however, it also is in a practical sense.

    After having done alot of research, and comparing the theories, data, and so on, it seems pretty obvious that virtually noone has any clue whot they're talking about. Most people are either "zomg the world is ending" or "I can do whotever I want lolz" with not much in between.



    Here's the short form of whot's actually happening in the past few decades:


    The average temperature around the equator is actually *DECREASING*. The temperature around the poles, however, is increasing. This means that there's more ice melting and being introduced into the oceans. The change in temperatures around the poles vs the equator is kind of important, because that adjusts how the gulf stream operates.

    Thing is, we're already overdue for an ice age, and recent information has revealed that these things happen with bizzare speed, changing from typical weather to ice age in 2-3 years or less. Carbon dioxide is not related to this really, but the temperature of the poles vs equator is rather important, as whot happens is it shuts down the gulf stream's heat distribution method. Once that happens, it's like a light switch, it's on, or it's off, there's no real gradual curve in the middle, just once it gets past that breaking point it all falls over immediately.

    At the moment, the planet's already gradually preparing for an ice age as it is, average duration of an interglacial is only about 9500-11,000 years on average. The longest recorded one in the last two million years was about 12,000. Currently we're sitting at about 12,500.

    Now, there's alot of actual things that can adjust these values, however. The earth's axis tilts in a wobbling pattern semi often, the magnetic poles swap places every once in awhile, which lets through alot more heat/radiation during the transition for a short time, the sun goes through alternating warm/cool phazes as well, and many other factors are also present.

    Now, that being said, we are preparing for an ice age sometime in the near future, the definition of 'near' is kinda weird though, as we're really not sure where that 'near' lies. It could be a few years from now, it could be 500 years. Who knows? Noone really at the moment.

    The problem with global warming, or specifically, the heat redistribution we're seeing, isn't that it's global at all, but that it's leaning us slowly closer towards that breaking point when the temperatures shift drastically. Human intervention's actually surprisingly small on this matter; a major volcanic eruption would have more effect than anything we've done in the last few hundred years combined... but when yeu're getting this close to the edge, the difference between 500 years and 5 years can be changed by as little as the amount of pollution and such which we apply.

    It's not like there aren't noticeable changes in temperature on certain areas, especially over major industrial areas. Heavy smog has a pretty obvious effect on temperature compared to surrounding areas, so there's definitely some change, and in the wrong places, this can cause issues.

    In any case, the warming isn't global, the world's both warming and cooling in different areas, it's the areas themselves which're being changed however, which's the issue. Is it man-made of a problem? Not really, there's a ton of factors unrelated to us which have a much larger impact, however, the impact of humans can be enough to adjust things for the worse if we're not careful. The whole proverbial 'straw that broke the camel's back' type dealie...

    In any case, just keep in mind the saying, that "No one raindrop thinks it is to blame for the flood". Because really, that's whot we're fooling ourselves with. We are collectively very small in scale on the effects of things on a global level, but that effect, despite being small, can have larger ramifications when it pushes things beyond that edge.

    Global warming, in the way it's described by Al Gore, is not occurring. Climate change, in ways rarely actually addressed, however, is occurring quite noticeably to those who know whot they're looking for. While we have limited effect, it doesn't mean yeu have an undeniable right to make as big of a mess as yeu please either. Just use a little common sense, yeu seriously don't like smog, so don't make more of it intentionally if yeu don't have to. Global warming or not, common sense should be applied. It's pretty obvious we have *SOME* effect on a local scale, and enough local scale eventually translates to larger scale. No point being stupid and pretending that the local can't translate into the larger version if yeu push it too far.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    I thought those concerned with global warming are also generally against destroying forests?
    The "Save the Rainforests" movement wasn't started due to global warming concerns. It was started due to concerns like mass extinction, which is much different than the current hysteria over carbon. The global warming movement is primarily concerned with controlling coal and gasoline.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33
    Senior Member Kangol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The "Save the Rainforests" movement wasn't started due to global warming concerns. It was started due to concerns like mass extinction, which is much different than the current hysteria over carbon. The global warming movement is primarily concerned with controlling coal and gasoline.
    Hm, I guess more people should become fans of national geographic. If the first article is correct, perhaps more emphasis will be put on prohibiting deforestation (it's been 2 years since the article was written, so maybe). I always assumed rainforests had a role in climate changes.

    Deforestation: The Hidden Cause of Global Warming | CommonDreams.org
    Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

    Anyway, we agree that climate and habitat affect each other. Deforestation is considerably man-made, so that should clarify the poll question further.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    Hm, I guess more people should become fans of national geographic. If the first article is correct, perhaps more emphasis will be put on prohibiting deforestation (it's been 2 years since the article was written, so maybe). I always assumed rainforests had a role in climate changes.

    Deforestation: The Hidden Cause of Global Warming | CommonDreams.org
    Deforestation Facts, Deforestation Information, Effects of Deforestation - National Geographic

    Anyway, we agree that climate and habitat affect each other. Deforestation is considerably man-made, so that should clarify the poll question further.
    I'd like to see less deforestation, less urban sprawl, but not for the reasons given in those articles.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
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    Roughly 20% don't know either way. I think it's interesting how among the other 80%, it's almost an even split between people who either feel gw is unimportant and/or not man made, and people who believe we are the cause of it and the planet is going to hell. The latter has a slightly larger chunk of the forum population, apparently. But I also wonder about the sampling pool. If we had this poll up in the section that gets the most traffic for topics that generally have no specific orientation (such as the bonfire), it'd likely attract the best sampling of people to accurately represent the forum. I imagine the political section is by far ruled and viewed by NTs.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Global warming 'technically' isn't happening, however, it also is in a practical sense.

    After having done alot of research, and comparing the theories, data, and so on, it seems pretty obvious that virtually noone has any clue whot they're talking about. Most people are either "zomg the world is ending" or "I can do whotever I want lolz" with not much in between.



    Here's the short form of whot's actually happening in the past few decades:


    The average temperature around the equator is actually *DECREASING*. The temperature around the poles, however, is increasing. This means that there's more ice melting and being introduced into the oceans. The change in temperatures around the poles vs the equator is kind of important, because that adjusts how the gulf stream operates.

    Thing is, we're already overdue for an ice age, and recent information has revealed that these things happen with bizzare speed, changing from typical weather to ice age in 2-3 years or less. Carbon dioxide is not related to this really, but the temperature of the poles vs equator is rather important, as whot happens is it shuts down the gulf stream's heat distribution method. Once that happens, it's like a light switch, it's on, or it's off, there's no real gradual curve in the middle, just once it gets past that breaking point it all falls over immediately.

    At the moment, the planet's already gradually preparing for an ice age as it is, average duration of an interglacial is only about 9500-11,000 years on average. The longest recorded one in the last two million years was about 12,000. Currently we're sitting at about 12,500.

    Now, there's alot of actual things that can adjust these values, however. The earth's axis tilts in a wobbling pattern semi often, the magnetic poles swap places every once in awhile, which lets through alot more heat/radiation during the transition for a short time, the sun goes through alternating warm/cool phazes as well, and many other factors are also present.

    Now, that being said, we are preparing for an ice age sometime in the near future, the definition of 'near' is kinda weird though, as we're really not sure where that 'near' lies. It could be a few years from now, it could be 500 years. Who knows? Noone really at the moment.

    The problem with global warming, or specifically, the heat redistribution we're seeing, isn't that it's global at all, but that it's leaning us slowly closer towards that breaking point when the temperatures shift drastically. Human intervention's actually surprisingly small on this matter; a major volcanic eruption would have more effect than anything we've done in the last few hundred years combined... but when yeu're getting this close to the edge, the difference between 500 years and 5 years can be changed by as little as the amount of pollution and such which we apply.

    It's not like there aren't noticeable changes in temperature on certain areas, especially over major industrial areas. Heavy smog has a pretty obvious effect on temperature compared to surrounding areas, so there's definitely some change, and in the wrong places, this can cause issues.

    In any case, the warming isn't global, the world's both warming and cooling in different areas, it's the areas themselves which're being changed however, which's the issue. Is it man-made of a problem? Not really, there's a ton of factors unrelated to us which have a much larger impact, however, the impact of humans can be enough to adjust things for the worse if we're not careful. The whole proverbial 'straw that broke the camel's back' type dealie...

    In any case, just keep in mind the saying, that "No one raindrop thinks it is to blame for the flood". Because really, that's whot we're fooling ourselves with. We are collectively very small in scale on the effects of things on a global level, but that effect, despite being small, can have larger ramifications when it pushes things beyond that edge.

    Global warming, in the way it's described by Al Gore, is not occurring. Climate change, in ways rarely actually addressed, however, is occurring quite noticeably to those who know whot they're looking for. While we have limited effect, it doesn't mean yeu have an undeniable right to make as big of a mess as yeu please either. Just use a little common sense, yeu seriously don't like smog, so don't make more of it intentionally if yeu don't have to. Global warming or not, common sense should be applied. It's pretty obvious we have *SOME* effect on a local scale, and enough local scale eventually translates to larger scale. No point being stupid and pretending that the local can't translate into the larger version if yeu push it too far.


    I love how Kangol just ignored your post . I'd like to see his take on it.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Kangol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post


    I love how Kangol just ignored your post . I'd like to see his take on it.
    Actually, I didn't ignore it, as I pretty much agreed with Katsuni's post and didn't have anything to add or refute. Did you read it?
    ... but when yeu're getting this close to the edge, the difference between 500 years and 5 years can be changed by as little as the amount of pollution and such which we apply....

    ...In any case, just keep in mind the saying, that "No one raindrop thinks it is to blame for the flood". Because really, that's whot we're fooling ourselves with. We are collectively very small in scale on the effects of things on a global level, but that effect, despite being small, can have larger ramifications when it pushes things beyond that edge.
    No one's arguing that humans have complete control over the global climate. From the start, in the other thread, I've taken the position that if we have reason to believe that our actions contribute to the potential problem, we should take preventative measures. Regardless of what happens, then, we'll at least have done what we could, given the recent warning signs, to lessen the potential for the climate to raise.

    I find Katsuni's post very helpful to making the issue clearer, unlike you, who lets scientific articles speak for you when your point isn't concerned with the science of it.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Habitat destruction is a far greater problem than carbon dioxide emissions will ever be.
    Yes, and no. Everything is interconnected. You can't really separate this. However, I do think we will have a more immediate problem concerning the ocean, and the fact that it creates 70% of the oxygen in the world. It also takes in carbon dioxide, and controls climate.



    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    The Maldives, and many other ocean states like Nauru and Palau. In fact, I think most of Micronesia and Melanesia will cease to exist in 50-100 years if this trend continues.
    I love the Maldives.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    I find Katsuni's post very helpful to making the issue clearer, unlike you, who lets scientific articles speak for you when your point isn't concerned with the science of it.
    Don't concern yourself with personalities, concern yourself with the information. Better yet, present some information (articles, scientific finding, data) instead of just talking on and on about the science of the debate without actually presenting anything scientific at all. Talk is cheap my friend, while evidence is prime.

  10. #40
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    katsuni's made more sense in one post than the first three pages of this thread. I think he/she was high on drugs, though.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


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