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  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I hate this country.
    What specifically do you hate about it? There are several things to hate.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    There are several things to hate.
    ^

  3. #13
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    the people and how the country is run by big businesses and those same corporations get away with treating their customers like crap because it appears that we have options but we don't.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #14
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    You suck at reading and understanding the facts, I've noticed.

    Reich was criticizing the existing system and the suggested alternatives made. He's VERY informed on the subject (wish I could say the same for Lifenews that you quoted) and has also criticized Obama's compromise plan for the SAME reasons:

    Robert Reich's Blog: The Health Care Cave-In

    Why not link him to baby deaths too, while we're at it. Also bring bunnies in. Discuss the issues - that will serve us ALL better.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    the people and how the country is run by big businesses and those same corporations get away with treating their customers like crap because it appears that we have options but we don't.
    Yes, I know what you mean.

    It's extremely frustrating that people keep asking me what I want, and then telling me I can't do it. It's because they insist on trying to make me believe I have choices even though there is something in particular I'm supposed to want.

    I wish they would tell me what I'm supposed to "choose." At least that would be honest.

  6. #16
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Nope. I'm going to make someone else do it. I could never kill myself voluntarily. I'd need to be murdered unexpectedly, because otherwise I'd probably manage to elude and outwit them if I knew exactly how and when it was going to happen.
    60 isn't very old... My dad just turned 72 and he walks just as fast as me, for just as long, not to mention he seems to be the happiest and wisest he's ever been.

  7. #17

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    This is a thorny problem, because while the phrase "death panels" frightens me as much as it frightens everyone else, I am also frightened by the amount of health care resources that are consumed by the elderly and infirm.

    I shudder to think of all the relatively young and healthy people that are denied care while we spend exorbitant sums of money keeping alive people who are permanently bedridden or even vegetative. I think that the decision has been made in our country to value length of life over quality of life. Is it worth the expense to get that 91-year old to see 92 when the resources consumed could be spent on those who can see major improvement in their quality of life? I really think we are extending human life beyond its natural boundaries, and it strikes me as hubris.

    I know that on a personal level no one wants to accept that their loved ones have reached the end of the road. But I find the current situation very sad and very unsustainable. I don't want the government telling me when I'm going to die. But there just has to be a better solution than the one we have now, or we are all going to be in a lot of trouble when the boomers hit their 80s.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    You suck at reading and understanding the facts, I've noticed.

    Reich was criticizing the existing system and the suggested alternatives made. He's VERY informed on the subject (wish I could say the same for Lifenews that you quoted) and has also criticized Obama's compromise plan for the SAME reasons:
    I hate arguing with you. You're saying the exact thing I just said, and then trying to make it looks as if you actually have a valid point. The majority of his speech was suggesting alternatives. Everything following his initial statement about the current healthcare system being designed to avoid sick people was his rendition of how a presidential candidate would TRUTHFULLY explain their plans for "reorganizing" the healthcare system. Reading that post in his blog, he says the same things about how the system would be changed, just without describing the more grim implications of his "blatant truth" speech.

    Unless you can give me some other context of the speech that somehow suggests his statements of the overall effects of the healthcare policies he seems to advocate (judging from his blog) were purely satirical, you have no point. The fact is it's not satirical because those are the real effects of using such policy. That's the entire point behind the healthcare policies. They are designed by the left to get young people to pay into healthcare, and to limit expenditures on the old and dying people. And by limiting innovation in the health industry through taxation and regulation, they will also limit the lifespans of future generations thereby fulfilling their desire for sustainable population growth (eugenics related idealogy).

    There is no article on the net or otherwise. There is only his statements, on tape.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    This is a thorny problem, because while the phrase "death panels" frightens me as much as it frightens everyone else, I am also frightened by the amount of health care resources that are consumed by the elderly and infirm.

    I shudder to think of all the relatively young and healthy people that are denied care while we spend exorbitant sums of money keeping alive people who are permanently bedridden or even vegetative. I think that the decision has been made in our country to value length of life over quality of life. Is it worth the expense to get that 91-year old to see 92 when the resources consumed could be spent on those who can see major improvement in their quality of life? I really think we are extending human life beyond its natural boundaries, and it strikes me as hubris.

    I know that on a personal level no one wants to accept that their loved ones have reached the end of the road. But I find the current situation very sad and very unsustainable. I don't want the government telling me when I'm going to die. But there just has to be a better solution than the one we have now, or we are all going to be in a lot of trouble when the boomers hit their 80s.
    the solution is to orient or health system towards keeping people healthy in their elderly years so that they can continue to be productive. However, judging by Reich's statements, that may be slow to develop since they want to intentionally limit innovation to limit people's lifespans. On the other hand, if they would just let our medical technology develop the way it would otherwise, we'd likely have advances that further increase lifespans and the healthfulness of our elderly years. But they don't like that because they think the planet is overpopulated anyway, although more healthy people means a greater ability to produce.

  10. #20
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    We're not talking about sending old people who are in decent health out to the ice floes. We're talking about people who are terminal. They ain't coming back. What little extra life that can be gained at great expense usually sucks too. The healthcare professions usually let quantity of life trump quality of life. (This isn't entirely their own choice.)

    Fun fact: The source of the "death panel" hoo-ha was a pair of Senate bills, the Medicare End-of-Life Care Planning Act and the Advance Planning and Compassionate Care Act, both sponsored by Sen. Johnny Isakson, a conservative Republican. Democrats agreed that they were good policy, but other Republicans chose to demagogue the bills instead.

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