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View Poll Results: Nobel Peace prize is it more "politically expedient" to accept?

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  • Yes

    19 42.22%
  • No

    17 37.78%
  • undecided

    9 20.00%
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  1. #151
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamathousandapples View Post
    But richer nations use way more resources than your average Joe Dirt. So that only worsens the problem, not fixes it.
    Does it? Most of our resources are renewable. Fossil fuels are on the way out, anyway. Every day, we find new ways to extract more out of less.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There are some that say we've actually already gone past the point of sustainability, and it takes time for our limits to catch up to us. For instance, fossil fuels are running out and it would be near impossible to maintain our current state on renewable energy sources. The centrer of the green revolution itself is seeing ecological problems, like soil erosion and dwindling ground water. Since the green revolution has produced that many people, it will certainly kill a lot of people if India stops being suitable for mass agriculture.
    First of all, fossil fuels aren't "running out." They are, however, getting scarcer, so they will start to become too expensive to be useful on a wide scale. That is GOOD. And if the past two centuries have proven ANYTHING technologically, it's that there is no "point of sustainability." We move the goalposts every generation, and things improve. Once China gets to be a Gx country, their (bad) pollution problems will lessen, too.



    Econmic powers in a globalized free market stand to gain from the presence of a stratum of poor states. When there's no one left to exploit, things fall apart. If the nations equalize in their wealth, then the classes within nations will spread apart. Raw capitalism will always make a bed of poverty.
    Complete and total nonsense. How in the world would it be BETTER to have fewer wealthy consumers in a free market? If you really believe that, you know nothing about economics.


    EDIT: And the apple creature raises a good point. The consumption necessary to get those zones of chaos to industrialize would probably break the system.
    That is EXACTLY what Ehrlich said in the '60s and '70s, and he was dead wrong.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #153
    Senior Member iamathousandapples's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Does it? Most of our resources are renewable. Fossil fuels are on the way out, anyway. Every day, we find new ways to extract more out of less.
    We're not just talking about fuel here, we're talking about food, water, space, the whole shebang, all of those having a finite amount(food needing topsoil to live) . 9 billion people using the same amount of food and water as you and I is definitely not sustainable, and certainly won't have enough space.

  4. #154
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    First of all, fossil fuels aren't "running out." They are, however, getting scarcer, so they will start to become too expensive to be useful on a wide scale. That is GOOD. And if the past two centuries have proven ANYTHING technologically, it's that there is no "point of sustainability." We move the goalposts every generation, and things improve. Once China gets to be a Gx country, their (bad) pollution problems will lessen, too.
    So what, you just expect a miracle? You're just betting, because it's always happened before, that something new, that you do not yet know of, will come along and solve everything? Yes, fossil fuels are running out. You are right, they become unhelpful long before then, though, which only reinforces my point. What you failed to address was my argument that renewable energy sources are so weak that it would be extremely difficult to supply the world's current energy consumption with them alone.


    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Complete and total nonsense. How in the world would it be BETTER to have fewer wealthy consumers in a free market? If you really believe that, you know nothing about economics.
    This is always what you say. Have you never even tried to read about the relationship between free markets and increased stratification?

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is EXACTLY what Ehrlich said in the '60s and '70s, and he was dead wrong.
    Maybe he got ahead of himself. It's not exactly damning that one guy would do that.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #155
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    I know this is a weird and unintuitive claim, but I am going to say it again anyway: more people, when free to "truck, barter, and exchange," means more resources. It always has done, and it will continue to.

    Understanding why is difficult, so I am just going to leave it there.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I know this is a weird and unintuitive claim, but I am going to say it again anyway: more people, when free to "truck, barter, and exchange," means more resources. It always has done, and it will continue to.

    Understanding why is difficult, so I am just going to leave it there.
    Simply observing that FACT is not difficult.

  7. #157
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I bet I'll have to point this out anyway, so I'll do it pre-emptively.

    Even if something created the entire world over to gain wealth, if it is skewed, it causes wealth to concentrate in certain areas. If the rate of wealth increase differs, the some areas would gradually (or rapidly) become more and more compatarively wealthy than others. When this happens, the ones with the slower wealth increases won't be getting much solace.

    Let's say nation A and nation B are equal in wealth. Now let's say that nation A becomes twice as wealthy in 50 years, and nation B becomes 100 times more wealthy in the same amount of time. In this scenario, nation A is clearly wealthier than it was 50 years ago, but I'm going to dare to say that it would be better off for nation A if things had never changed, because nation B's 100 x increase gives it comparative power which it will probably use to rape nation A.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I bet I'll have to point this out anyway, so I'll do it pre-emptively.

    Even if something created the entire world over to gain wealth, if it is skewed, it causes wealth to concentrate in certain areas. If the rate of wealth increase differs, the some areas would gradually (or rapidly) become more and more compatarively wealthy than others. When this happens, the ones with the slower wealth increases won't be getting much solace.

    Let's say nation A and nation B are equal in wealth. Now let's say that nation A becomes twice as wealthy in 50 years, and nation B becomes 100 times more wealthy in the same amount of time. In this scenario, nation A is clearly wealthier than it was 50 years ago, but I'm going to dare to say that it would be better off for nation A if things had never changed, because nation B's 100 x increase gives it comparative power which it will probably use to rape nation A.

    That is a very childish and destructive view of how the world works.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #159
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That is a very childish and destructive view of how the world works.
    It's conflict theory man. If you think it's childish and destructive, you've got a lot of sociology departments to convert. Come to think of it, a lot of poli-sci departments, too.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's conflict theory man. If you think it's childish and destructive, you've got a lot of sociology departments to convert. Come to think of it, a lot of poli-sci departments, too.

    It's tough to convert people who often don't listen to reason.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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