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  1. #71
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    well, at least the release of a portion of the innocent prisoners has begun, but really, the existence of a prison camp such as this is a blemish on our image as a nation. everyone knows there are innocent people being held without fair trial in there.

    you can disagree with my opinion, but factually speaking, obama did say that he would close guantanamo by the end of this year.

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  2. #72
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    well, at least the release of a portion of the innocent prisoners has begun, but really, the existence of a prison camp such as this is a blemish on our image as a nation. everyone knows there are innocent people being held without fair trial in there.

    you can disagree with my opinion, but factually speaking, obama did say that he would close guantanamo by the end of this year.
    Yet he wont:

    WASHINGTON (AFP) – US Attorney General Eric Holder acknowledged Tuesday it will be "difficult" to close Guantanamo Bay by January 2010, as Washington faces a litany of challenges in shuttering the controversial prison.

    "It's going to be difficult for us to make the January 22 deadline," Holder told reporters, insisting the facility would eventually be closed.

    Holder and other administration officials have insisted that the prison camp will eventually be closed, as President Barack Obama faces a firestorm of opposition from both Republicans and his fellow Democrats in Congress to his plans to shut down the prison and move at least some detainees to US soil.

    "I think at the end, Guantanamo will be closed," Holder said.

    About 80 detainees are eligible for release from Guantanamo, the US naval base in southern Cuba where 223 terror suspects are still held. The administration expects another 60 will be prosecuted.

    Holder said a task force assigned to review detainee cases, with the goal of determining whether individuals should be released, prosecuted or detained without charge, has "gone through all the files."

    The government team has encountered setbacks as it sifts through complex cases that include evidence possibly tainted by abuse.

    It has also struggled to persuade other countries to take some of the detainees, with only a trickle of prisoners -- some 27 -- transferred since Obama's inauguration in January.

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates admitted last month it would be "tough" to close the detention center by January, becoming the first administration official to publicly admit Obama's self-imposed deadline might not be kept.

    More than 550 detainees have been transferred from Guantanamo since it was opened by former president George W. Bush in January 2002, according to the Defense Department.

    The facility quickly became a symbol of "war on terror" abuses and Obama pledged during his presidential campaign to close it for good.


    'Difficult' to meet Guantanamo closure deadline: Holder - Yahoo! News

  3. #73
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Of course he didn't. He was faced with REALITY that hit him in the face as soon as he actually got into office and realized that Gitmo has a lot of dangerous mofos and you cant just transfer them all to a neighborhood near you.
    Or perhaps he never intended to.

    Am I the only one that thinks he is merely a puppet of the bankers and co.?

  4. #74
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    It has effected our foreign policy as well, but you really REALLY can't tell me that the UN is or would be better.
    And I "REALLY" didn't. The U.N. is a useless, morally bankrupt stage for world-leaders to pontificate and get high on power. I would like to see the U.N., at least in its current form, abolished.

    At least we DO accomplish something good in this new global era where if one or a group of countries acts like dicks it effects everyone. At least we can aid in keeping things orderly among all of those dick nations so that the rest of us can enjoy relative safety compared to the alternative.
    I think the U.S. Federal Government does a lot of bad, too. I am not so sure it keeps order at all. The job of the U.S. military is not to spread liberty and democracy, but to protect the liberty and democracy of its citizens from outside aggressors. Although it may be tempting to use such powers to "do good" in the world, once it is unleashed we are merely hoping that the wrong man doesn't grab hold of the reins.

    As Hume pointed out, when considering the proper structure of government, we should suppose all politicians and public officials to be knaves, wanting nothing more than to serve their own selfish interests. That way, liberty and democracy are not dependent on getting only good leaders, but are fortified against anyone, good or bad, who seeks office.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathara View Post
    Or perhaps he never intended to.

    Am I the only one that thinks he is merely a puppet of the bankers and co.?
    All of our presidents and most western world leaders are beholden to the special interest powerhouses that are the bankers. With that said, the bankers have no interest in what happens to Guantanamo. Instead of viewing reality, you people simply choose to create another conspiracy to uphold the dream world you live in.

  6. #76
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathara View Post
    Or perhaps he never intended to.

    i feel sorry for my gay friends that believed him when he was feigning support of same sex marriage pre-election... of course, predictably, he since came out (no pun intended) saying that he was against same sex marriage. i laugh when fox news calls him ultra liberal and socialist. are they serious? this guy is more centrist than clinton from what i can tell, socially speaking..

    it pisses me off that he made promises he may have never intended to keep to get votes, but at the end of the day, it's still preferable to having a past-prime septuagenarian and mentally challenged soccer mom in his and biden's place

    if only marginally

    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Instead of viewing reality, you people simply choose to create another conspiracy to uphold the dream world you live in.
    "you people".

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    And I "REALLY" didn't. The U.N. is a useless, morally bankrupt stage for world-leaders to pontificate and get high on power. I would like to see the U.N., at least in its current form, abolished.

    I think the U.S. Federal Government does a lot of bad, too. I am not so sure it keeps order at all. The job of the U.S. military is not to spread liberty and democracy, but to protect the liberty and democracy of its citizens from outside aggressors. Although it may be tempting to use such powers to "do good" in the world, once it is unleashed we are merely hoping that the wrong man doesn't grab hold of the reins.

    As Hume pointed out, when considering the proper structure of government, we should suppose all politicians and public officials to be knaves, wanting nothing more than to serve their own selfish interests. That way, liberty and democracy are not dependent on getting only good leaders, but are fortified against anyone, good or bad, who seeks office.
    And by do good I mean keeping ourselves or allies from potential/approaching harm or imminent danger, which all of our war efforts have been geared towards except possibly for Iraq because I still don't know why we went into the damn place. Even if the reason Bush went in there was fallacious and misleading, I can't argue (and I really don't think anyone else can) that he made the middle east a WORSE place. I'd argue that although the Iraqis as a whole didn't outright ask for our democracy and values to be imposed upon them, that they do love not being killed in the street because while we may all have different cultures and values, NONE of us likes being oppressed and killed. If I'm wrong, you'd need to show me an Iraqi who says they'd rather, of their own volition, live under the rule of Saddam (and who didn't formerly work under him). The reasons may very well have been wrong, but don't let it tarnish an objective view of what the real effects were.

  8. #78
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    If THIS isn't political. :rolli: My opinion of the people on that committee has deteriorated.... hmm... the Nobel Pity Prize... sad.
    YouTube - SNL Obama Do Nothing Skit 10 3 09
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #79
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    All of our presidents and most western world leaders are beholden to the special interest powerhouses that are the bankers. With that said, the bankers have no interest in what happens to Guantanamo. Instead of viewing reality, you people simply choose to create another conspiracy to uphold the dream world you live in.
    You mean war isn't beneficial for the bankers?

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathara View Post
    You mean war isn't beneficial for the bankers?
    Guantanamo Bay isn't war. It's security, pure and simple.

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