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  1. #61
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    It's not the responsibility of the U.S. Federal Government to "clean up the mess," and its attempts to do so almost invariably cause even greater messes. The U.S. Federal Government is no more competent at meddling in the affairs of foregin people than it is meddling in the affairs of its own.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    It's not the responsibility of the U.S. Federal Government to "clean up the mess," and its attempts to do so almost invariably cause even greater messes. The U.S. Federal Government is no more competent at meddling in the affairs of foregin people than it is meddling in the affairs of its own.
    If we don't do it then it falls on someone else's shoulders to do it, and I'd argue that having other countries deal with it would be worse for all of us and make the world a more dangerous place. It's like going and saying that the janitor doesn't do anything useful just because you never looked at the shit on the wall that he went in and cleaned up so nobody would have to look at it in the first place. His good work goes unnoticed.

  3. #63
    Senior Member kathara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Now that Obama is president, the rest of us don't hate your collective guts so much anymore.
    Nah, I still hate their guts.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Silly_Siren's Avatar
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    It's because he took his shirt off

    Seriously though, that's a heap of shit. Award ceremonies are so irrelevant now. The Grammies I could understand, but don't those noble prize people have any standards? he hasn't done anything yet! I mean, he saved the world from the Republicans, but Billary could have done that!
    =universal solution

  5. #65
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Now that Obama is president, the rest of us don't hate your collective guts so much anymore.
    But it's just hero worship. Most of our policies haven't changed a bit. It's a new face with different rhetoric. So what you're saying is that the people of the world want to feel warm and fuzzy about the US whether it has anything to do with reality or not.
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  6. #66
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    If we don't do it then it falls on someone else's shoulders to do it, and I'd argue that having other countries deal with it would be worse for all of us and make the world a more dangerous place. It's like going and saying that the janitor doesn't do anything useful just because you never looked at the shit on the wall that he went in and cleaned up so nobody would have to look at it in the first place. His good work goes unnoticed.
    Except the U.S. Federal Government is nothing like a janitor: it does not get paidfor cleaning services, and nor can it be fired for doing a bad job. Why should we expect it to behave as a dutiful and competent janitor on the world stage, when it cannot even do it in one nation -- the United States. The same conceit, hubris, opportunism, and corruption that motivate and select action on the domestic scene are also at work in foreign meddling.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    But it's just hero worship. Most of our policies haven't changed a bit. It's a new face with different rhetoric. So what you're saying is that the people of the world want to feel warm and fuzzy about the US whether it has anything to do with reality or not.
    That's exactly how it is.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Except the U.S. Federal Government is nothing like a janitor: it does not get paid, and nor can it be fired for doing a bad job. Why should we expect it to behave as a dutiful and competent janitor on the world stage, when it cannot even do it in one nation -- the United States. The same conceit, hubris, opportunism, and corruption that motivates and selects for political actors in the U.S. Federal Government on the domestic level are also at work in its foregin meddling.
    Get a clue man, every country has some form of corruption. For DAMN sure, most countries have much more of it than we do. At the moment our system is rather steeped in it, and it does need a correction to at at least get back to the level of integrity we used to have. It has effected our foreign policy as well, but you really REALLY can't tell me that the UN is or would be better. They are the biggest bunch of do nothing carebear ignoramus's to ever scourge the international stage. Seriously, they accomplish nothing, and do more harm than the United States. At least we DO accomplish something good in this new global era where if one or a group of countries acts like dicks it effects everyone. At least we can aid in keeping things orderly among all of those dick nations so that the rest of us can enjoy relative safety compared to the alternative. At least the people in Iraq dont have to live under a tyrannical dictator who oppresses women under his rule and has his own private rape chambers. At least the men and children don't have to worry about being persecuted/killed at the slightest whim or because they dare to speak for freedom. I swear some of you people in other countries are nothing but a bunch of complainers.

  9. #69
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    he didn't close gitmo yet.

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by phthalocyanine View Post
    he didn't close gitmo yet.
    Of course he didn't. He was faced with REALITY that hit him in the face as soon as he actually got into office and realized that Gitmo has a lot of dangerous mofos and you cant just transfer them all to a neighborhood near you.

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