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  1. #101
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    To be honest, I think it handcuffs him in terms of taking aggressive stances on certain foreign policy decisions. If Iran requires intervention, it makes him look bad. If he goes through with an Afghanistan troop surge, it makes him look bad. If he doesn't close Gitmo soon, it makes him look bad.

    To be real, the whole fiasco makes the committee look worse than anybody else. It's not really Obama's fault. They've devalued what should be a prestigious award given to tremendous humanitarian accomplishments, and made themselves a sort of a joke and their award is now recognized as being largely politicized. And he doesn't need any help on the world stage, he's the most powerful person in the world.
    Agreed.

    It's just blank-check idealism. What is the precise rationale for his appointment? The Nobel is generally awarded after a lifetime of peace-mongering; not for achievements yet untendered. Why does Obama deserve it when Gandhi does not?

    To your point, what happens when he opts to invariably make a move that involves military force?

    What has he possibly done, aside from carrying a different perspective than the previous administration, that establishes him as a legitimate Nobel recipient?

    It took him 10 months to 'earn' the award -- 10 months. It would take me longer to earn a Welding certificate from a tech school.

  2. #102
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post

    It took him 10 months to 'earn' the award -- 10 months. It would take me longer to earn a Welding certificate from a tech school.
    Yep, pretty much. It's the equivalent of declaring a major, and the university just giving you the diploma.



  3. #103
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Technically, it didn't take him 10 months because he was nominated two weeks after taking office. The prize was apparently assigned to his saga before being president and his initial decarations as the new president.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #104
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Technically, it didn't take him 10 months because he was nominated two weeks after taking office. The prize was apparently assigned to his saga before being president and his initial decarations as the new president.
    Even worse.

  5. #105
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Whether it was a good idea or not (I think not) it has become clear that the prize was for rewarding an acheivement, but for endorsing a trend. What I'd say to the Norwegians is that they have apparently no idea how this looks.

    I have nothing but pity for Obama at this point, really. He's in one of the worst times for the USA that any president has been in, and he keeps getting more and more problems that are not his fault at all. The pressure on him to get things done is unreasonaby high, and the blame for things not getting done is misattributed. If I were Obama, I'd hate congress right now, Republicans and Democrats alike.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #106
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Sure, it's a tough gig.

    I don't have any pity for him. It's the nature of the beast.

  7. #107
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    To be honest, I think it handcuffs him in terms of taking aggressive stances on certain foreign policy decisions. If Iran requires intervention, it makes him look bad. If he goes through with an Afghanistan troop surge, it makes him look bad. If he doesn't close Gitmo soon, it makes him look bad. Just as you're supposed to freeze your private assets [yes, I think Cheney didn't do this, if I recall correctly] upon taking office so as not to have personal incentives, you shouldn't really be eligible or accept this kind of thing because an American interest may not align with a Norwegian interest, and it just looks bad.

    To be real, the whole fiasco makes the committee look worse than anybody else. It's not really Obama's fault. They've devalued what should be a prestigious award given to tremendous humanitarian accomplishments, and made themselves a sort of a joke and their award is now recognized as being largely politicized. And he doesn't need any help on the world stage, he's the most powerful person in the world.
    We have to look at how the world is viewing this to know its effect. American conservatives might think of this as a fiasco, but they don't matter in world affairs right now.

    Not to be arduous, but world leaders are praising him over this:

    World leaders hail Obama's surprise Prize

    Agence France-Presse
    First Posted 21:37:00 10/09/2009
    World leaders urged US President Barack Obama to seize the surprise award of the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday as an opportunity to step up diplomatic efforts to forge peace in the globe's troublespots.

    From the capitals of western Europe to Kabul via Jerusalem, leaders as well as former winners said they hoped the honor would spur peaceful dialogue and efforts to rid the world of nuclear arms.

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel said it was an "incentive to the president and to us all" to do more for peace, adding that "his engagement for a world free of nuclear weapons is a goal that we must all try to achieve in the coming years."

    "In a short time," she said, "he has been able to set a new tone throughout the world and to create a readiness for dialogue."

    French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the prize marked "America's return to the hearts of the world's peoples," while former UN chief Kofi Annan called it "an unexpected but inspired choice."

    The stunning announcement by the Norwegian Nobel Peace Prize Committee in Oslo was interpreted as a bid to encourage Obama's bold diplomatic overtures to Washington's enemies, rather than recognition of any achievement of peace by a young leader who has been in office for only nine months.

    "We do not yet have peace in the Middle East... this time it was very clear that they wanted to encourage Obama to move on these issues..." said the 2008 winner, former Finnish president Martti Ahtisaari.

    Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas said he hoped it would help bring about an independent Palestinian state.

    Arab League chief Amr Mussa voiced his delight, but the Islamist movement Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, said the US leader did not deserve the award.

    "He did not do anything for the Palestinians except make promises," Hamas spokesman Samir Abu Zuhri said. "At the same time, he is giving his absolute support for the (Israeli) occupation."

    Israeli President Shimon Peres however said Obama had restored hope to the world, adding, "You gave us a license to dream and act in a noble direction."

    In Afghanistan, where Obama has taken on a bloody conflict against Taliban extremists entering its ninth year, President Hamid Karzai said he was being recognized for "his hard work and new vision on global relations, his will and efforts for creating friendly and good relations at global level."

    But the decision was condemned by the Taliban who said he had "not taken a single step towards peace in Afghanistan.

    "We have seen no change in his strategy for peace," said Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid.

    Thorbjoern Jagland, chairman of the Nobel committee, said its decision had been unanimous and was for Obama's "extraordinary efforts" to strengthen diplomacy and cooperation.

    "There is a need now for constructive diplomacy for resolving conflicts and that is what President Obama is trying to do," he told CNN.

    But the 1983 laureate, Poland's Lech Walesa, was incredulous. "Who, Obama? So fast? Too fast -- he hasn't had the time to do anything yet," he said.

    The conservative Wall Street Journal did not mince its words, describing the choice of Obama as "completely bizarre" and bluntly suggesting the award "sweeps aside such old-fashioned notions of reward following effort."

    But UN nuclear watchdog chief Mohamed ElBaradei -- another former winner -- thought Obama had "reached out across divides and made clear that he sees the world as one human family, regardless of religion, race or ethnicity."

    Newly-elected Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama said he saw "the world changing" since Obama entered the White House on January 20.

    "I am really pleased. I want to congratulate him from my heart," Hatoyama said on a visit to China, recalling an Obama speech calling for a nuclear-free world. Japan is the only country to have suffered a nuclear attack.

    South African archbishop Desmond Tutu, who won the prize in 1984, saw Obama as a younger incarnation of Nelson Mandela, himself a co-laureate in 1993.

    "It is a very imaginative and somewhat surprising choice. It is wonderful," he told reporters in Cape Town.

    The Nelson Mandela Foundation said it hoped the award would steel Obama to promote peace and fight poverty.

    Arch foe Iran said the award would provide Obama with an "incentive to walk in the path of bringing justice to the world order."

    "We are not upset, and we hope that by receiving this prize he will start taking practical steps to remove injustice in the world," said a spokesman for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

    Obama's Kenyan relatives said they were delighted. "It is an honor to the family... we are very happy that one of us has been honored. We congratulate Barack," Said Obama, the president's step-brother, told Agence France-Presse.

    Obama, whose father was Kenyan, is regarded as the east African country's favorite son and his father's home village is a protected site.
    World leaders hail Obama's surprise Prize - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

  8. #108
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The pressure on him to get things done is unreasonaby high, and the blame for things not getting done is misattributed. If I were Obama, I'd hate congress right now, Republicans and Democrats alike.
    I disagree with this. He said he'd fix it, so it's expected he'd fix it. Though I would hate congress too if I were a president, because all they do is impede everything, but that's what it's there for.



  9. #109
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    We have to look at how the world is viewing this to know its effect. American conservatives might think of this as a fiasco, but they don't matter in world affairs right now.

    Not to be arduous, but world leaders are praising him over this:
    Right: these are all prominent members of state offering diplomatic nods. There's nothing particularly meaningful in their tailored press releases.

    Look at the common citizen for a better read.

    It's dismissive to gloss over the opinion of the opposition. American conservatives aren't alone in their dismay.

  10. #110
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Right: these are all prominent members of state offering diplomatic nods. There's nothing particularly meaningful in their tailored press releases.

    Look at the common citizen for a better read.

    It's dismissive to gloss over the opinion of the opposition. American conservatives aren't alone in their dismay.
    Precisely.

    And most of the analysis I've read has regarded the award as a premature political move. And no, not just fox news.



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