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  1. #21
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I think what's most disconcerting about this and the pro-life view in general, is the lack of responsibility and accountability on the male's part. Women seem to take the load here. No pun intended. It takes two, folks.
    ITA about men needing to be held more accountable. For this specific example and working with their premise (which I disagree with) I see an ethical flaw in their attempt to collect such extensive stats on the mothers if they're not attempting to do the same for the fathers (admittedly, not always as easy, for obvious reasons).

    I am also missing how the exact same bolded part you wrote couldn't be argued for the pro-choice view in general. It's undeniable that the woman should be in the spotlight for abortion issues as a whole. This whole deal revolves around someone inhabiting her uterus.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #22
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I think what's most disconcerting about this and the pro-life view in general, is the lack of responsibility and accountability on the male's part. Women seem to take the load here. No pun intended. It takes two, folks.
    i agree. the men have a great hand in this as well. Its the woman that 'take the load' because they're the one's actually carrying the baby. I think the men need to take some responcibility here. I know its not likely but it should be.
    but of coarse i am against abortion, but i still see that the male needs to play part in whats gone on.
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  3. #23
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    I understand what you're saying, but there would be nothing in her uterus to begin with if it weren't for sperm. I don't believe men should have the final say in something they can't physically share the burden of, but they need to be held more accountable for being the catalyst of that development.

    The shaming of women is absurd. I don't see the same happening to men. When it comes to things like this Oklahoma law, the men are getting off scot free. Again, no pun intended.

  4. #24
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    Unfortunately abortion is one of those things I view as a one step forward, two steps back. Yes it gave women (rightfully) control over their body, but it also led to the current view of women some men have. It has placed women further into object category in some instances (read - some men). You can always just get an abortion, y'know! We hear about men sowing their wild oats, really meaning sex without consequences and how it is their "right" and their "duty" to get that experience. Abortion has become another tool to objectify women. (the usual disclaimers, *some* men..blah blah)

    On the flip side, it's also condemned women when people decide they don't agree with abortion. People feel it is their right to know intimate details of a particular women's life, because they don't agree with the law. This is not about tracking trends or statistics...not with the amount of information and the way they are posting it. Its a witch hunt, but only going after one party.

  5. #25
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Does this violate HIPAA?
    I don't know, but I'm against it on principle regardless of any legal technicalities. It's obviously a move by pro-life people to curb abortions.

  6. #26
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but there would be nothing in her uterus to begin with if it weren't for sperm. I don't believe men should have the final say in something they can't physically share the burden of, but they need to be held more accountable for being the catalyst of that development.

    The shaming of women is absurd. I don't see the same happening to men. When it comes to things like this Oklahoma law, the men are getting off scot free. Again, no pun intended.
    I think we're in agreement here, then.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tewt View Post
    Unfortunately abortion is one of those things I view as a one step forward, two steps back. Yes it gave women (rightfully) control over their body, but it also led to the current view of women some men have. It has placed women further into object category in some instances (read - some men). You can always just get an abortion, y'know! We hear about men sowing their wild oats, really meaning sex without consequences and how it is their "right" and their "duty" to get that experience. Abortion has become another tool to objectify women. (the usual disclaimers, *some* men..blah blah)

    On the flip side, it's also condemned women when people decide they don't agree with abortion. People feel it is their right to know intimate details of a particular women's life, because they don't agree with the law. This is not about tracking trends or statistics...not with the amount of information and the way they are posting it. Its a witch hunt, but only going after one party.
    You raise some very interesting points, most of which I agree with. There are plenty of men who have bullied their partner into having an abortion, it not even occuring to them (or they just not caring) that it's basically a form of violence against women to coerce them into abortion.

    However, I can't hold legal abortion alone responsible for the shocking numbers of men who refuse to take responsibility for their sexual activities i.e. the guys with kids from multiple mothers whom they don't care for, the guys who have bumper stickers saying things like "I don't pay child support I pay bitch support", and just a general attitude now that life is some sort of sexual free-for-all in which women should shoulder the consequences alone. I know legal abortion has something to do with it, but it's surely not the only factor.

  8. #28
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    how long before pro-life fundamentalist whackos abuse this public information to hunt down these women and harrass them?

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    You raise some very interesting points, most of which I agree with. There are plenty of men who have bullied their partner into having an abortion, it not even occuring to them (or they just not caring) that it's basically a form of violence against women to coerce them into abortion.

    However, I can't hold legal abortion alone responsible for the shocking numbers of men who refuse to take responsibility for their sexual activities i.e. the guys with kids from multiple mothers whom they don't care for, the guys who have bumper stickers saying things like "I don't pay child support I pay bitch support", and just a general attitude now that life is some sort of sexual free-for-all in which women should shoulder the consequences alone. I know legal abortion has something to do with it, but it's surely not the only factor.
    oh yeah, I agree with you...abortion alone is not responsible for this. I'm just saying its another tool. It's interesting to me just how this law got passed, it seems like everyone thought they have this automatic right to know a womans body intimately. From having intercourse with her without natural consequences actually applying to the partner -- to making her individual medical information public.

  10. #30
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's not new. You wouldn't believe the number of people who seemed to think they had the God-given right to touch my abdomen when I was pregnant.

    And I agree with you. I'm in favor of keeping abortion safe & legal (while reducing the number of abortions that need to be performed) but it wouldn't be a choice for me. It's just not on the table.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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