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  1. #201
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Wtf do knives have to do with anything?
    The concept that I accept all laws, current and future, of the entity that has gained control of the land I happen to live on, is very dubious.
    Fine, then there is no social contract. Therefore, since you're in the state of nature, force is the determinant. Hope you brought your guns.

    What right did the US government have imposing their will over Native American land? Under your assertion, the white settlers accepted the law of the Indian tribes as soon as they rolled onto the American land, which would make white settlers criminals when they started killing buffalos and issuing "fuck yous" to indian chiefs.
    First of all, that you're comparing the Native American situation to the modern idea of the nation-state is a little curious. Even then, it still holds up. The white settlers didn't accept the terms of the NA social contract (i.e. their sovereignty). Thus, the relations between the two are done in the forum of the state of nature, where as previously stated, force is what wins. The white settlers had more force than the Native Americans, and consequently, won that sovereign right.

    Like I said, the rules aren't necessarily just or fair to all, but the rules are there.

  2. #202
    Une Femme est une femme paperoceans's Avatar
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    Default And so it continues

    IUC has learned film director Roman Polanski is finally being brought to justice because authorities have learned that Polanski had unlawful intercourse with several other underage women. While investigating Polanski’s rape charges with then 13-year-old Samantha Gailey, a police source told IUC that authorities learned of at least two other cases in which Polanski allegedly plied underage women with champagne and drugs before engaging in sexual acts with them. “Polanski should be brought to justice, it’s long overdue,” the source said. “He makes Phil Spector and OJ look like angels. I can’t believe he’s been able to evade justice for so long.” Developing…
    The story is developing so I am not 100% sure if this is true, but he has been known to have sexual relations with minors before. So I wouldn't necessarily be surprised.

    Originally published in Le Nouvel Observateur, April 13 1984
    Translated by Paul Cronin and Remi Guillochon

    Giesbert: But surely you brought the rape case on yourself?
    Polanski: It began when Vogue Hommes asked me to do something for them and I suggested a series of photos of teenage girls. Soon afterwards someone told me of a young girl who had the look I was after. She wanted to be a model and had already done some TV commercials. In my book I call her Sandra. While passing through Los Angeles to prepare a film, I went to see her.

    G: You took some photos of her on the Mulholland hills and then in Jack Nicholson's villa. You drank some champagne, you went for a swim in the pool, and then...
    P: I feel that you're uncomfortable asking your questions. But do go on.

    G: Do you regret having made love to this young girl?
    P: I regret everything I had to go through afterwards.

    G: She was thirteen years old.
    P: She was about to turn fourteen. Three weeks later to be exact.

    G: That's no excuse.
    P: If you had seen her, you would have thought she was at least eighteen years old.

    G: You pleaded guilty to statuatory rape?
    P: So that the case could continue behind closed doors.

    G: Do you feel like the victim of a judiciary error?
    P: The young girl admitted in front of a tribunal that she'd already had intercourse with other people before meeting me, though the tribunal wasn't concerned about these other men. When Mr. Smith or Mr. Brown sleeps with fourteen year-old adolescents who look eighteen, it doesn't interest anyone. But when a famous film director does, the law and the press sound the alarm. It seems that I was the only one -- or nearly the only one -- to have found myself before a judge.

    G: You hit rock bottom when you were jailed for several weeks in Chino Californian penitentiary.
    P: Being in jail was an interesting experience. To be honest I found life as a convict fascinating. I got a much stronger understanding of why the people we call re-offenders, once released, look for new ways to get back behind bars. Since then, like those guys, I've found myself feeling nostalgic for the time I spent in there.

    G: That's masochism!
    P: What does a sailor miss when he finds himself back on dry land? The solitude and the rocking movemnt of the waves. Well, it's the same thing for an ex-con. He misses the boredom, the routine, and the little dramas.

    G: You ended up leaving the United States. Does it upset you not being able to return?
    P: California is too removed from my own word. I'm basically European, and everything I love is here in Paris. I don't know of any other city in the world where you can see so much -- all the exhibitions, films, concerts, fashion shows. But what makes me sad, naturally, is that France's creativity is not what it used to be. Each nation has its cycles, I think. Right now France is clearly on the crest of the wave. It's not talent that's lacking, more ambition.

    G: You have been chased by fate since your birth. Will there ever be any respite?
    P: I've always hoped so. I've always considered myself a nomad, but now I don't want to move anymore. I find the idea of spending a weekend in the countryside unappealing.
    Between that cigarillo and sticking my finger down my throat to see if I could DT, I feel like puking RN.

    Read my Blog.

  3. #203
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Koresh didn't have the right to declare sovereignty, and the US has the right to protect its sovereignty through the use of force. Accidents happen.
    And sometimes "accidents" are planned. They could have picked up Koresh safely on any number of occasions.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    yes he does but weather anyone likes it or not, untill he is proven guilty he is innocent, certainly in both your country and my own.
    This is true. And under Common Law a defendant is presumed innocent only while they are in a Criminal Court.

    Outside the Court no presumption of innocence exists.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by paperoceans View Post
    ...he has been known to have sexual relations with minors before.
    Yes, it is unlikely to have been a one off. It is more likely to have been a pattern of behaviour.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I think people just enjoy thinking of Americans as puritanical witch-hunters...
    The reality is that North America was colonised by Puritans who hunted witches.

    You only have to drive up to Salem to learn about witch hunting.

    Or if that is too far, have a night out at your local theatre to see, "The Crucible", your most famous play by your most famous playwright.

    "The Crucible", is all about Puritans hunting witches.

    This may all seem a long time ago but the reality is that as a tree is bent, so it grows.

    Puritanism has left its indelible mark on you.

    However it is important to say that Puritans not only hunted witches but they created a disciplined, elegant and literate society that brought a new equality to its members.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Isn't there some way they could have pursued this more quietly rather than having it all out in the open, though? Must these things always be so public?
    I agree with you on this point. I feel that way about lots of issues which are splashed all over the news and tabloids.

  8. #208
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    And sometimes "accidents" are planned. They could have picked up Koresh safely on any number of occasions.
    It is unwise to allege conspiracy where incompetence can fully explain the circumstances.

  9. #209
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    During the last phase of WW II, when the Russians advanced Vienna and Berlin,
    they raped the women they could find.
    Including all the young girls and the grandmothers.

    A raping mob is bent on avenge.
    It is composed of ordinary men.
    Avenge is about judgement.
    Judgement is a very moral thing. It is about revenge and power.
    A thing of the mob.

    Logic or compassion is about neither thing.
    It is only about being Mensch.
    Eh. I would prefer you used the Polanski case itself to defend your viewpoints as it is the topic of conversation. To use war crimes to either justify or back up your own viewpoint of revenge or judgement (honestly, I'm not entirely sure what you're point is) is superfluous. Also, Who said judgment is a bad thing? Judging has a time and a place. That place is certainly in a courtroom where there are checks and balances ensured to give the defendant a fair trial. Polanski circumvented this system and chose to run away. Now he should return and face his fate. Simple as that.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  10. #210
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paperoceans View Post
    The story is developing so I am not 100% sure if this is true, but he has been known to have sexual relations with minors before. So I wouldn't necessarily be surprised.
    I wonder how people are going to justify his freedom when they realize that he's a serial child rapist, that his victims probably number in the dozens.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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