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  1. #151
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    A raping mob is bent on avenge.
    It is composed of ordinary men.
    Avenge is about judgement.
    Judgement is a very moral thing. It is about revenge and power.
    A thing of the mob.
    Mob.

    Yes, that's the right word.

    Most of the people who I'm seeing here arguing for his prosecution evoke the image of a fired-up mob spoiling for the spectacle of a public execution. The irony is that they accuse his allies of being prejudiced towards him because he's famous, while failing to see that they're the ones with the prejudice... that is, deep down they just want to see someone up on high brought down low, because of envy. It isn't about justice, they're mad and they just want the social status equivalent of blood.

    The rest of them evoke the image of those people who worked in an office that told me I needed to wait until they got the request forms for request forms so I could request what I needed, even though they had boxes of the thing I needed piling up behind them, and completely failed to see anything absurd or humorous in the situation.

    In a sense, I'd say that this isn't really justice. First, Roman raped her, made her go through a process against her will that wasn't in her best interests. Now, the justice system is metaphorically raping her, making her go through yet another process against her will that isn't in her best interests.

    It seems to me like it's only "justice" in a very penal, procedural sense. It seems like the only interest being served here is the court or judge's ego. I mean, some judge or prosecutor probably wants to be known as the guy who tried Roman Polanski, a person who stands up for the little guy and isn't intimidated by money or fame. May even be seeking political office.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Actually, I read the girl in the case wants the charges dropped, because at this point she's married, 40-something years old, and doesn't feel that there's any benefit for her in prosecuting him for it. They've just refused to do it.

    If she were still under 21, I could see them insisting on it regardless of what she said. If she were demanding he be punished for what he did, I could see it. But at this point, with all these developments, it doesn't make any sense. Especially since the victim feels that they're going to suffer more as a result of it being pursued than leaving it alone. They're basically subjecting the victim to further anguish by pursuing this, and that's what bothers me.

    I personally think that if the victim drops the charges after a certain age, they should just be dropped.

    Justice can be very petty, bureaucratic, and meaningless at times, and I think this is one of those times.
    I wonder how much Polanski paid her to say she felt that way.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #153
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Mob.

    Yes, that's the right word.

    Most of the people who I'm seeing here arguing for his prosecution evoke the image of a fired-up mob spoiling for the spectacle of a public execution. The irony is that they accuse his allies of being prejudiced towards him because he's famous, while failing to see that they're the ones with the prejudice... that is, deep down they just want to see someone up on high brought down low, because of envy. It isn't about justice, they're mad and they just want the social status equivalent of blood.

    The rest of them evoke the image of those people who worked in an office that told me I needed to wait until they got the request forms for request forms so I could request what I needed, even though they had boxes of the thing I needed piling up behind them, and completely failed to see anything absurd or humorous in the situation.

    In a sense, I'd say that this isn't really justice. First, Roman raped her, made her go through a process against her will that wasn't in her best interests. Now, the justice system is metaphorically raping her, making her go through yet another process against her will that isn't in her best interests.

    It seems to me like it's only "justice" in a very penal, procedural sense. It seems like the only interest being served here is the court or judge's ego. I mean, some judge or prosecutor probably wants to be known as the guy who tried Roman Polanski, a person who stands up for the little guy and isn't intimidated by money or fame. May even be seeking political office.
    That's not the point. He evaded sentencing because of his considerable wealth. Not pursuing him to the fullest extent of the law reinforces the idea that the rich are held to a different standard than the rest of us. The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees due process and equal protection under the law for everyone in the United States. Evading prosecution therefore is contradicting the Constitution, and in a constitutional society, this cannot be tolerated.

    He has to go down, period.

  4. #154
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's not the point. He evaded sentencing because of his considerable wealth. Not pursuing him to the fullest extent of the law reinforces the idea that the rich are held to a different standard than the rest of us. The Fourteenth Amendment guarantees due process and equal protection under the law for everyone in the United States. Evading prosecution therefore is contradicting the Constitution, and in a constitutional society, this cannot be tolerated.

    He has to go down, period.
    +1.

    As an aside, it's neither here nor there in terms of what the victim wants respective to his prosecution.

    Allowing the victim to determine due penalty creates for a profound mismanagement of the justice system, as it personalizes punishment and removes objectivity from decision-making.

    His prosecution shouldn't be controversial. He raped a child. End of story. It's extraneous how long ago it was, or the sentiment of the victim today. Unimportant. Irrelevant.

    I haven't ecountered anything resembling a legitimate defense of Polanski's behavior. Instead, most try to misdirect attention away from his actions, and onto a secondary focus. Pathetic.

  5. #155
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    As an aside, it's neither here nor there in terms of what the victim wants respective to his prosecution.

    Allowing the victim to determine due penalty creates for a profound mismanagement of the justice system, as it personalizes punishment and removes objectivity from decision-making.

    His prosecution shouldn't be controversial. He raped a child. End of story. It's extraneous how long ago it was, or the sentiment of the victim today. Unimportant. Irrelevant.

    I haven't ecountered anything resembling a legitimate defense of Polanski's behavior. Instead, most try to misdirect attention away from his actions, and onto a secondary focus. Pathetic.
    Along with that, we already have a system by which aggrieved parties can seek recompense - civil law. She can sue for battery and intentional infliction of severe emotional distress if she felt that he needed to amend the damages done to her.

    What we are talking about here is a criminal case. The aggrieved party is the society comprised by previously the people of California, and now the people of the United States, that is, the sovereign authority in the country. The harm done is the violation of the laws of society.

    Since we're a nation of laws, we've divested some of our sovereign authority to the strictures defined within. When an individual decides to evade prosecution, he is declaring that he is above the sovereign authority of the People of the United States. By definition, he does not have that right, and thus the legitimacy of this sovereignty is put into question. Therefore, to protect the legitimacy of its own right to sovereignty, the People are obliged to pursue and prosecute any violators to the absolute fullest extent of the law, as defined by our Constitution.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    In a sense, I'd say that this isn't really justice. First, Roman raped her, made her go through a process against her will that wasn't in her best interests. Now, the justice system is metaphorically raping her, making her go through yet another process against her will that isn't in her best interests.
    Bullshit. The justice system is simply performing its function. This should have been resolved decades ago, but Polanski ran. It is Polanski's fault, and his fault alone, that the victim has to go though all of this again. He had over 30 years to turn himself in if he wanted to spare her the pain (or he could have just not raped her in the first place, I suppose). You're blaming the wrong party, Athenian.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #157
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Guys

    Worth pointing out that the premis of the law is that he is innocent until proven guilty....

  8. #158
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Guys

    Worth pointing out that the premis of the law is that he is innocent until proven guilty....
    It would have been wonderful if Polanski had let the process play out 30 years ago. We wouldn't be talking about this if he had.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #159
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It would have been wonderful if Polanski had let the process play out 30 years ago. We wouldn't be talking about this if he had.

    I'm not defening him in any way, but he hasn't actually been found guilty..... It doens't bode well, but it may be a case of him doubting he would get a fair trial... his fame doth damn him etc.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I'm not defening him in any way, but he hasn't actually been found guilty..... It doens't bode well, but it may be a case of him doubting he would get a fair trial... his fame doth damn him etc.
    I find it extremely difficult - actually impossible - for me to have any sympathy for him. The man has the means for the best criminal defense money can buy.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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