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  1. #71
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I never believed in global warming, either.

    Winters don't seem warmer to me than they used to. It always seemed to me they were overestimating the impact of greenhouse gases, considering that volcanic eruptions have a far greater impact than human activity.

    I think their main reason for coming up with it was to manipulate people into worrying about the environment, because a lot of people will only feel pressure to do something about it if they think it's about to become a crisis. So they decided to generate a crisis. I think their concern about the environment was valid, but they used questionable tactics to get people paying attention to the issue.

    I'm liberal on a lot of issues. But the weather isn't one of them.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I never believed in global warming, either.

    Winters don't seem warmer to me than they used to. It always seemed to me they were overestimating the impact of greenhouse gases, considering that volcanic eruptions have a far greater impact than human activity.

    I think their main reason for coming up with it was to manipulate people into worrying about the environment, because a lot of people will only feel pressure to do something about it if they think it's about to become a crisis. So they decided to generate a crisis. I think their concern about the environment was valid, but they used questionable tactics to get people paying attention to the issue.

    I'm liberal on a lot of issues. But the weather isn't one of them.
    You are exactly right. Global warming is a large social engineering project. It is in the same vain as the psychology behind rapid bailouts and healthcare policy, pushed as being absolutely necessary to pass ASAP lest we face destruction from the oncoming CRISIS. It was Rom Emanuel who said you must take ADVANTAGE of a crisis to do things you couldn't do before. The whole push for manmade global warming is to manipulate the public into conforming to liberal agendas of further controlling society and its direction, taking more money from the public, and pushing more environmental regulation (for good or for worse). The morons and sheep follow this tide, along with scientists who are funded and encouraged by the political and corporate machinery. Going with the green movement means a lot of money and career opportunities for scientists who go along with it. The genuine science lacks any broad understanding of all the variables that effect our climate, and therefore lacks the ability to make predictions and put the workings of the entire climate into the category of physical law. Therefore, it is a WEAK science thus far, until we are able to understand more about all the variables and how they play into the climate system. The truly ignorant pretend to know the entire story, when the fact is that no human on this planet has a full grasp of it. However, while we may not be scientists, common sense can still be applied to the data that is available and interpretations can be made that aren't swayed by the political static.

    Common sense tells me that when CO2 is such a minor greenhouse gas, our controbutions are so minescule to the total amount of it, its presence in the atmosphere is so small, the sun is so large and produces nearly all of the planet's heat and temperature fluctuations, CO2 never rises before temperatures, the climate is always changing, correlation doesn't equal causation, we haven't been warming for over 10 years, they could only say we'll have another 20 or more years of cooling TENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNN years after the fact, winter is coming earlier and earlier every year with records being broken in timing and severity, that the manmade global warming THEORY is a load of crap.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Kangol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Whether he believes the conclusions of climate scientists is a different issue. The animosity comes from his dislike of the environmental political movement.


    If it was only climate science, and there was no political arm, people wouldn't have the same reaction.
    Too bad they're pretty much impossible to do with a claim like "unless we act now, the future climate of the world may become dangerously high."

    I don't know how else to say that the costs of changing standards today are not as high as potentially ruining the ecosystem, and by association, agriculture and economy, of the future. It's a gamble, sure, but like I said once before, I think it's better for the green-environmentalist to be proven wrong than to be proven right.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    Too bad they're pretty much impossible to do with a claim like "unless we act now, the future climate of the world may become dangerously high."

    I don't know how else to say that the costs of changing standards today are not as high as potentially ruining the ecosystem, and by association, agriculture and economy, of the future. It's a gamble, sure, but like I said once before, I think it's better for the green-environmentalist to be proven wrong than to be proven right.
    Plants grow better in warmer climates. Agriculture always boons when there is a warming period.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Kangol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    You are exactly right. Global warming is a large social engineering project. It is in the same vain as the psychology behind rapid bailouts and healthcare policy, pushed as being absolutely necessary to pass ASAP lest we face destruction from the oncoming CRISIS. It was Rom Emanuel who said you must take ADVANTAGE of a crisis to do things you couldn't do before. The whole push for manmade global warming is to manipulate the public into conforming to liberal agendas of further controlling society and its direction, taking more money from the public, and pushing more environmental regulation (for good or for worse). The morons and sheep follow this tide, along with scientists who are funded and encouraged by the political and corporate machinery. Going with the green movement means a lot of money and career opportunities for scientists who go along with it. The genuine science lacks any broad understanding of all the variables that effect our climate, and therefore lacks the ability to make predictions and put the workings of the entire climate into the category of physical law. Therefore, it is a WEAK science thus far, until we are able to understand more about all the variables and how they play into the climate system. The truly ignorant pretend to know the entire story, when the fact is that no human on this planet has a full grasp of it. However, while we may not be scientists, common sense can still be applied to the data that is available and interpretations can be made that aren't swayed by the political static.

    Common sense tells me that when CO2 is such a minor greenhouse gas, our controbutions are so minescule to the total amount of it, its presence in the atmosphere is so small, the sun is so large and produces nearly all of the planet's heat and temperature fluctuations, CO2 never rises before temperatures, the climate is always changing, correlation doesn't equal causation, we haven't been warming for over 10 years, they could only say we'll have another 20 or more years of cooling TENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNN years after the fact, winter is coming earlier and earlier every year with records being broken in timing and severity, that the manmade global warming THEORY is a load of crap.
    I don't think you caught the irony of your statement, "The truly ignorant pretend to know the entire story, when the fact is that no human on this planet has a full grasp of it." and then immediately go on to explaining why you think the theory is a load of crap.

    What you're saying then, is that because scientists haven't yet understood the whole story, they should shut up about it, right? At least, until they fully understand it? That's not the way science operates. People conduct studies, come up with theories, and present them publicly. This in turn encourages other scientists to conduct further research on the issue, either by checking and refining the prior claims, or by continuing with relevant studies. It also encourages the general public to use the information as they see fit. Thanks to this, medicine was discovered, bridges and buildings were built, and the multitudes of other things we've had the privilege of using thanks to scientific breakthroughs. And those sciences, chemistry, physics, biology, etc., are still being worked on, still being improved. That's because the sciences have not claimed to understand the whole picture; in fact I think any scientist would immediately be skeptical of anyone that claims they know exactly how a system works. Yet, this does not stop scientists from making new claims, because the point is to keep pushing until they find more things that help solve the puzzle.

    The public being subject to their findings is a mixed blessing; indeed, often times findings will be exploited by snake-oil salesmen. This may be partly true in regard to the green movement, and for this I can see people being upset. It's unfortunate that scientific claims are seen as irrefutable truths, because that's exactly the opposite of what a scientific claim ought to be, refutable.

    I see that you aren't upset at the science of the situation, but at the politics that have been affected by it. At least, that's what should be the case. Go ahead and be upset at those who would deliberately exploit a science they haven't even studied, but keep in mind that you're no expert on it either (common sense doesn't count as anything scientifically credible, no matter who you are). Science should never shut up for the sake of the public's convenience; on the contrary, when science speaks, the public should shut up and listen.

    Again, the articles you put up are helpful to the public's awareness because it sheds new light on understanding the way our climate systems work. However, they do not immediately refute anything about the global warming claims; that needs to wait for more tests and consensus. For people to use this as a reason to then denounce the efforts of environmental protection and other "liberal" agendas is also a form of exploitation, as they too obviously don't know the science of it all (as given by your argument that no one knows the entire picture) but still want to make political shifts. Not only is it exploitation, but hypocritical.

  6. #76
    Senior Member Kangol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Plants grow better in warmer climates. Agriculture always boons when there is a warming period.
    Indeed, but if the climate were to change at an exponential rate, it would likely be difficult for plants to adapt, unless agriculturalists were able to rapidly evolve all important crops consistently with the changes. Not only that, but if temperatures change enough, farming zones would likely have to change frequently as well, due to the changing climate and its subsequent potential effects on rainfall and irrigation. I'm not sure how much these changes across the globe would cost, but it would just compound onto the other projected costs of warming. Of course it's still speculation on my part, and that's where my previous post comes in.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Sacrator's Avatar
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    Its not over its just on hold till 2020 or 2030. If i remember right global warming is supposed to warm the ocean and create excessive evaporation which will cause cooling. Anyways to make you feel a little guilty over your false truths here is some accurate estimations by scientists what global warming will do to species around the world in the long run after the full effects of global warming takes effect.
    Climate change is expected to drive a quarter of all land animals and plants into extinction. (more than 1 million species)
    Irreversibly more than one in ten of all plants and animals today will become extinct because of global warming gases already released into the atmosphere.
    Scientists estimate if mankind continues to burn oil, coal and gas at the current rate, up to one third of all life forms will be doomed by 2050.

    Also the production of CO2 requires 2 oxygen molecules to create and there is already a observed decrease in the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. Many scientists are becoming concerned that if something doesn't happen that humans could end up suffocating themselves. there's already parts of the world where the oxygen levels have dropped to 14%
    [SIGPIC]http://www.derekrhode.com/MiscHosting/Pics/151645.png[/SIGPIC]

  8. #78
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    those animals and plantlife will probably die from the dissapearing BEES, and what's killing the bees RIGHT NOW? and we're gonna die too when the bees are gone.

  9. #79
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    this is estimations based on climate change not dieing bees. The bees are dieing from poor crop management. Most of the bees would pollinate crops that were poorly managed and they would get diseases and spread it to the hive.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.derekrhode.com/MiscHosting/Pics/151645.png[/SIGPIC]

  10. #80
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    exzcuse me while I have a cigarette

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