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  1. #31
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuranes View Post
    I can agree that "hurting/destroying the earth" and "making things uncomfortable or unsafe for humanity" are often two different things. There are certainly Leftist "pitbulls" who conflate the two.
    If you think about it, the second one is the one that matters, though.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #32
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Since I love to swing my dick everywhere, I thought I'd go ahead and share one of many many MANY recent stories of former global warming asshat political whore scientists who have finally looked up and seen reality for what it is, that global warming is either NOT HAPPENING right now, or that the whole man made greenhouse apocalypse BS is something fit only for a story meant to be told to retarded children. But you never hear these stories because like everything else that doesn't fit the political left's agenda, the media ignores it. They love to make sure you stay mired in deep, dark, ignorance. Fortunately for you, I'm not like that .

    Anyway, this article (go find another one on the internet or newspaper if you don't like this one, because no matter which one you read, the reality is the same) tells the story of one of the lead IPCC scientists who has now come out to say that warming has halted and we are in a 30 or so year cooling period.

    However, he declined to say that global warming believers should just go to hell to find their mythical warming.
    Careful, dude... you're messing with people's religion here.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Although I appreciate your fair and balanced setup for the article, let me ask you a question: Are you pro-pollution?
    Heh... one good slant deserves another, eh?

  4. #34
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Heh... one good slant deserves another, eh?
    Framing is an art. Don't mess with my art.

    I did learn something from this thread. I learned that risen doesn't want to learn, he just wants to shout. Because learning comes through understanding both sides of an issue, and argument and debate is how one gains practical understanding of the other side. And maybe this thread is the exception for that because I also learned that risen doesn't have an understanding of environmental science, so the actual specifics of the article cannot be discussed in an honest fashion, which might be why he doesn't want to argue the points. Or maybe he never wants to argue. Yeah, that's probably it.

    In the end, the arguments on this issue are complicated. And for that reason, the global warming debate will continue for a very long time with only a select few scientists having a true understanding of what the data reveals prior to it making its way through the political spin machine. It's always a nasty mess when politics intermingles with science. On issues such as that, I'll never pretend to have an understanding of the science, but I do understand the politics.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  5. #35
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Since I love to swing my dick everywhere, I thought I'd go ahead and share one of many many MANY recent stories of former global warming asshat political whore scientists who have finally looked up and seen reality for what it is, that global warming is either NOT HAPPENING right now, or that the whole man made greenhouse apocalypse BS is something fit only for a story meant to be told to retarded children. But you never hear these stories because like everything else that doesn't fit the political left's agenda, the media ignores it. They love to make sure you stay mired in deep, dark, ignorance. Fortunately for you, I'm not like that .

    Anyway, this article (go find another one on the internet or newspaper if you don't like this one, because no matter which one you read, the reality is the same) tells the story of one of the lead IPCC scientists who has now come out to say that warming has halted and we are in a 30 or so year cooling period.


    Scientists pull an about face on global warming



    However, he declined to say that global warming believers should just go to hell to find their mythical warming.
    Now it's global cooling? haha... What a bunch of crackheads,... It's funny because now ice age fanatics are going to gobble this crap up.

    Clearly it's bullshit on either end of the fulcrum. I'm not sure if it is true, but from what I have read, the polar ice cap is much smaller than it was like 10 years ago, hence the ongoing debate that Canada has been involved in, regarding the oil resources locked under the arctic ice, which is an acclaimed 15% of the world total...

    Here are my thoughts:

    1. Some evil geniuses heat up the atmosphere to melt the cap to get the oil(HARRP, CERN).

    2. These same evil geniuses are in cahoots with the G20, which blamed the public for irresponsible use of fossil fuels so they could justify their carbon taxes, which helps pay for the research needed to find this oil.

    3. All of this bullshit makes for a really really good book.
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  6. #36
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Framing is an art. Don't mess with my art.
    Oh, I wasn't messing with it... I was recognizing and appreciating it. You responded to Risen in the native language of his original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    In the end, the arguments on this issue are complicated. And for that reason, the global warming debate will continue for a very long time with only a select few scientists having a true understanding of what the data reveals prior to it making its way through the political spin machine. It's always a nasty mess when politics intermingles with science. On issues such as that, I'll never pretend to have an understanding of the science, but I do understand the politics.
    I think the real problem in the debate stems from the fact that the academic world is so political. There is a whole lot of very valid, useful science that could be done if it wasn't on the wrong side of one political issue or another. Also, some researchers continue to defend theories for years after they themselves know that an honest look at experimental data actually favors a rival theory, because in academia credibility is currency. With it you have funding; without it, you don't.

    And I wish that the manufacture of public opinion had never become a science in its own right. It's a discipline of scoundrels.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewitter27 View Post
    This is old news to me...

    I don't like the idea of pollution, but things have been taken WAAAAAAAY too far. I mean, seriously? Sure, it isn't nice to pump waste into our water, dump trash into the land and water, and put toxic chemicals in the air, but the problem of Global Warming has been immensely exaggerated.

    Maybe now they'll focus on the real issues... Seesh...
    For a long time I've believed that habitat destruction was a much greater environmental concern than global warming.

    We'll need several more corroborating studies before the anthropogenic warming crowd even starts to consider that they might be wrong. Until then, they'll shout anyone down, saying "You just don't understand climate science", something they, ironically, don't understand either.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    There has never been a definitive consensus on global warming; or, rather, if global warming is just a short-scale trend; if it's man-made or not; etc. etc. so it's lame to try to "illuminate" people by citing one source, there's probably an equal number of pro and con sources. I'm personally skeptical towards any kind of anthropocentric view on climate.
    Said that, we should absolutely be against pollution, even if it's not the cause of global warming, simply because it's the proven cause of many more problems.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haight View Post
    Framing is an art. Don't mess with my art.

    In the end, the arguments on this issue are complicated. And for that reason, the global warming debate will continue for a very long time with only a select few scientists having a true understanding of what the data reveals prior to it making its way through the political spin machine. It's always a nasty mess when politics intermingles with science. On issues such as that, I'll never pretend to have an understanding of the science, but I do understand the politics.
    I love it when the conversation goes my way. So easy to predict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Until then, they'll shout anyone down, saying "You just don't understand climate science", something they, ironically, don't understand either.
    But if you tweak the discourse juuuuust right...

  10. #40
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    There has never been a definitive consensus on global warming; or, rather, if global warming is just a short-scale trend; if it's man-made or not; etc. etc. so it's lame to try to "illuminate" people by citing one source, there's probably an equal number of pro and con sources. I'm personally skeptical towards any kind of anthropocentric view on climate.
    Said that, we should absolutely be against pollution, even if it's not the cause of global warming, simply because it's the proven cause of many more problems.
    Pollution is a negative, and the presence of pollution in our environment represents a risk. As such, our willingness to accept a given degree or kind of pollution is governed by our calculation of risk vs. reward. For example:

    Collectively, our society has decided (with some individual exceptions) that the risk of emitting fossil fuel exhaust into the atmosphere is worth the reward of being able to drive to work. I think we all agree that the risk of emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is worth the reward of continued breathing, though there may be some who have disagreed and committed suicide rather than continue to pollute.

    Yes, pollution is a negative, but it is literally impossible to live a life of absolute intolerance to pollution at any cost.

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