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  1. #91
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    There was an interesting article on this: Is Conservatism Brain-Dead?

    The article pointed out how the right has lost a lot of its intellectual firepower (like William F. Buckley Jr.) and now the populists (Rush, Ann Coulter) have taken the leadership roles. Which is great for "rah-rah" emotionalism for the true believers, but makes those on the outside looking in wonder if all the conservatives have lost their marbles.
    Sadly the "rah-rah" stuff is mainly what counts. There's a trend in authoritarian governments of having an anti-intellectual streak. It works.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    1) If you really think that only liberals shout for political agenda, I'm going to have to stop debating with you from now on because you've stuck your head so far up your ass your eyeballs and ears have been caked with turd.
    Both sides shout. Again, your lack of observational ability has made you unable to see the entire point here. It would be sad, if it weren't as intended.

    2) Cass Sunstein's statements have no significant relevance to my argument.
    Your argument never mattered in the first place, and I was never addressing it, nor have I been engaged in debating the science in this thread. I'll let you believe that the primary reason for my creating this thread is to share NEW information, not to argue over it.

    In the quotes it doesn't seem Sunstein was concerned with the legitimacy of global warming; he was addressing the political after-effects. You can go and get hung up on your war against wealth distribution, but that's not at all what I'm concerned with here.
    Of course you are not concerned with it. You must ignore one or more parts of the big picture to keep the legitimacy of the man made global warming stable in your mind. If you were to actually look at all the factors involved in the issue, scientific and non scientific, you would be able to reach conclusions of true integrity. Consider it analogous to how global warming scientists do not have a handle on all of the variables involved in the climate. And consider THAT analogous to how people such as yourself and I do not have a handle on all of the information that is availible, much less all of the variables involved in the climate.

    From the start I've been talking about why I believe it to be rational to take precaution regarding global warming, and really, any situation that calls for a "better safe than sorry" sense of responsibility that could potentially affect billions of lives.
    Global warming policy also effects billions of lives and economies worldwide. No matter what the real science is, it is only wielded by politicians. Politicians have an agenda. Ignore that, and you have just blindsided yourself to the most major part of the issue, the application of that knowledge. it is humorous how an INTP doesn't understand the APPLICATION part.

    If that really is the big reason for our arguing, that you're focused on the politics while I'm focused on the science, then I think we should end here. However, I ask that you not use articles citing weather research to make political arguments. It's difficult to separate the two in this debate, but they're two separate arguments.
    They are separate, but part of one whole, as I have described above. However, my purpose here is not in debating it.

    3) You know that arrogance you are accusing Bill Maher of? If you think that's annoying, you should read some of your own posts, most of which include some kind of "Liberals are ignorant sheep" and "Only the intelligent people know the truth, like me" statement. I don't really care for Maher's show or his points because they definitely are one-sided. I saw him on a show with Conan O'Brien one day, making a similar statement about America being dumb, and so Obama should follow Bush's lead by just making the decisions for the people instead of trying to please everyone. Whether or not he's made a good point, Maher representing "the kind of people pushing the global warming agenda" is not only an ad hominem attack, but it suggests that you believe people supporting the global warming concern, generally liberal, believe that America should be more like a dictatorship.
    Some of YOU do (but perhaps not you specifically, kangol). But YOU are not in charge of a damn thing. The people who have made efforts to take power positions in government do share that ideology that leans towards being dictatorial. I'll be making yet another thread to demonstrate that soon. Thankfully, most citizens are not that extreme. It is the far left liberal/progressive politicians, activists, and other individuals/organizations with influence that entertain these ideas, and are attempting to implement them.

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trying to be a goof when you sing praises to yourself and anyone who agrees with your beliefs, and that you really want to find out the truth behind things. If you want to be taken more seriously and not heckled by the others before me who poked fun at you, you should stop being so hasty on judging the validity of claims that are contrary to your belief. Starting with an answer (i.e. global warming is crap, conservatives are smart, etc.) and then searching for evidence (i.e. articles supporting your argument, choosing Bill Maher as the liberal spokesperson) is not a good way to make a valid claim. It makes for good rhetoric and exciting news, which unfortunately becomes accepted for the truth in the absence of reason. I know I'm being a complete jackass, but if you really are interested in seeking out truths, something I wholeheartedly support, you need someone to point out the things that will help you make better claims, and it won't be the people who simply agree with you or don't care to argue with you.
    The true heirs of arrogance are those who believe that they know more than they do know. The crown of arrogance is worn by those who would hazard to think that their opinions hold any substantial substance or importance, so much as to concern others over how those opinions are oriented towards them. And those kings of arrogance believe their true wealth is held within their castle, but the wise and humble ruler knows that his riches are in the kingdom he calls his own.

    Perhaps if you really wish to wage war and overthrow the latter, you should disperse the riches within your own kingdom.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. People get upset over things they have some say in and directly and immediately affect them, like the economy, as opposed to asteroids flying through space. Are you saying it's okay for people to get upset and voice their opinion? That's the implication I got. I wouldn't disagree with that; it's just difficult to understand an argument that states three facts and concludes "see the difference?".

    If that is the point you're trying to make, I'd say that a person has every right to state their complaints about whatever it is that's making them upset. However, if they dissent without bothering to understand the reasoning of the opposition and instead believes that they cannot possibly be wrong, they not only have no merit in debate, but will continue to make themselves and others upset by making argumentative noise instead of trying to reconcile views. If debate is unimportant, and still the voices of opposition shout deaf to each other, it's a war of words, and the loudest voices, not the voices of reason, will win.
    The assumption you make is that the "opposition" is using well-reasoned arguments. That's not always the case, even among scientists, and it's rarely the case during political discussions. Appeals to emotion rule the day.

    Washington DC has some anti-drilling advertisements on some metro buses. Those advertisements contain no facts, rather, they contain only a photograph of a baby seal.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The assumption you make is that the "opposition" is using well-reasoned arguments. That's not always the case, even among scientists, and it's rarely the case during political discussions. Appeals to emotion rule the day.

    Washington DC has some anti-drilling advertisements on some metro buses. Those advertisements contain no facts, rather, they contain only a photograph of a baby seal.
    Tactics my friend, tactics. A means to an end.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    There was an interesting article on this: Is Conservatism Brain-Dead?

    The article pointed out how the right has lost a lot of its intellectual firepower (like William F. Buckley Jr.) and now the populists (Rush, Ann Coulter) have taken the leadership roles. Which is great for "rah-rah" emotionalism for the true believers, but makes those on the outside looking in wonder if all the conservatives have lost their marbles.
    Liberalism is in the same boat really. Serious discourse overall about political principles, policies, whatever has degraded beyond belief nowadays. Instead of actual discussion, you have people shouting pre-arranged talking points at each other for five minutes before cutting to the next commercial break.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Kangol's Avatar
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    Default Quoth He from His throne, "

    You know, when a thread is called "Global warming is over", uses an article that basically has a scientist going "Well it looks like we have to revise our perspective" and another with a renegade doing his own research, I kinda assume it was going to have something to do with the validity of the claim "global warming is over". But Risen has made it clear to me this is not the case, and is in fact about him being proven right about his beliefs on global warming and liberal agendas. Surely, despite his admission that both sides are guilty of shouting and unaware of all variables of the issue, and that only the arrogant believe more than they know, he must be right. Surely, in the absence of absolute evidence, despite many scientific reasons to be cautious, we must not allow ourselves to be distracted with something so trivial as our future.

    I can only hope that this thread has been elucidating for the rest of you as it has for me. Excuse me while I tend to my Kingdom of Arrogance.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangol View Post
    You know, when a thread is called "Global warming is over", uses an article that basically has a scientist going "Well it looks like we have to revise our perspective" and another with a renegade doing his own research, I kinda assume it was going to have something to do with the validity of the claim "global warming is over". But Risen has made it clear to me this is not the case, and is in fact about him being proven right about his beliefs on global warming and liberal agendas. Surely, despite his admission that both sides are guilty of shouting and unaware of all variables of the issue, and that only the arrogant believe more than they know, he must be right. Surely, in the absence of absolute evidence, despite many scientific reasons to be cautious, we must not allow ourselves to be distracted with something so trivial as our future.

    I can only hope that this thread has been elucidating for the rest of you as it has for me. Excuse me while I tend to my Kingdom of Arrogance.
    Ah, so you've begun to search for and analyze the deeper meaning have you? You have, however, missed the mark.

  8. #98
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    Something you might want to consider is this:

    Think of a small fire. this small flame burns and burns and burns, right? But if you dump gasoline on it, it becomes a wildfire that consumes everything in its path. You didn't start it, but motherfucker, you certainly ain't helping.

    With Climate Change( and we're talking about climate change, not global warming, for fuck's sake) humanity certainly didn't ignite the forces that drive change in the various ecosystem, but we aren't powerless here. The earth can absorb massive amounts of CO2, but not if we destroy the system it has for that particular action, by say, overlogging?

    and also, did you seriously say "global warming is over"? seriously, what are you thinking? This whole business is no where near over. Dealing with climate change isn't a goddman political game, which you seem to think it is.

    This about our continued existence on this planet. Would you be satisfied if the whole world starves, if only because the Liberals starve with them?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of the Damned View Post
    Something you might want to consider is this:

    Think of a small fire. this small flame burns and burns and burns, right? But if you dump gasoline on it, it becomes a wildfire that consumes everything in its path. You didn't start it, but motherfucker, you certainly ain't helping.

    With Climate Change( and we're talking about climate change, not global warming, for fuck's sake) humanity certainly didn't ignite the forces that drive change in the various ecosystem, but we aren't powerless here. The earth can absorb massive amounts of CO2, but not if we destroy the system it has for that particular action, by say, overlogging?

    and also, did you seriously say "global warming is over"? seriously, what are you thinking? This whole business is no where near over. Dealing with climate change isn't a goddman political game, which you seem to think it is.

    This about our continued existence on this planet. Would you be satisfied if the whole world starves, if only because the Liberals starve with them?
    Until you realize that it is used as a political tool, regardless of anyone's belief about the true nature of it, scientifically, you will continue to understand nothing about the issue, certainly not in how it is most relevant to our lives. Until you and others understand that, we cannot communicate on the same level. I cannot talk to you about the nature of something that fills up the room if you only want to look at one corner of it.

  10. #100
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Points:

    1) Global Warming and Climate Change are both used as political tools to forward the agenda of Liberal Democrats, Conservative Republicans and other less significant political factions.

    2) Climate Change is a simple, catchy name for a brand people don't quite understand yet.

    (Dis)Agree?
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


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