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  1. #31
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    for those who fear what the government may know about them

    Federal Bureau of Investigation - Criminal Justice Information Services Division - FBI Identification Record Request

    now you'll know what they're after you for!!!

    (sorry- this site would only work if you were an american citizen or permanent resident)

  2. #32
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    The governments we see may be incompetent at executing the jobs they don't specifically exist for or care about. Or they may be highly competent at making aspects of life worse when it suits them, under the guise of incompetence or inappropriate legislation holding them back. (Just look at what's been done to the police force in the UK - and now crime is, we're told, so bad, totalitarian measures are looking more acceptable.) It takes a genius to act genuinely unintelligent, and I think it's genius behind the impressions we have about government.

    David Icke's analogy is also appropriate, even though I haven't read enough to analyse or subscribe to all of his beliefs. If a well looked after bull told his fellow cattle the real intentions of the farmer, and what the future really held, they wouldn't believe it, because their direct experience is to them indicative of humans being good to them, or trying to be, and all they see is what the farmer and the fence allow them to see.

  3. #33
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xNFJiminy View Post
    David Icke's analogy is also appropriate, even though I haven't read enough to analyse or subscribe to all of his beliefs.
    My family is a fan of Icke. From what they tell me of his work, he says that reptilian extraterrestrials landed on earth many millenniums ago and infused their genetics with some of the primitive human population. This gave rise to the modern human and the descendants of that original hybrid race became the ancient royal bloodlines that rule today. Apparently you are supposed to be able to see some of the reptilian characteristics in families like the Bush family and Rockefeller family. I don't think I could jump on that train of thought.

  4. #34
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    My family is a fan of Icke. From what they tell me of his work, he says that reptilian extraterrestrials landed on earth many millenniums ago and infused their genetics with some of the primitive human population. This gave rise to the modern human and the descendants of that original hybrid race became the ancient royal bloodlines that rule today. Apparently you are supposed to be able to see some of the reptilian characteristics in families like the Bush family and Rockefeller family. I don't think I could jump on that train of thought.
    That's one of the more exotic sounding theories. Again, whatever your conclusion, very interesting facts are brought up in the research process, about things from ancient cultures through to scientology, and they alone may be relevant to better understanding today's world and current affairs. If you type the word 'reptilian' into Youtube you'll get an idea of how popular that one is. I'm saying nothing, except I don't particularly care which species those with power are, with anything other than existential curiosity. There are more significant things going on to think about. There is also a good possibility, IMO, that all the modern reports and evidence may be being planted in order to damage the credibility of and distract conspiracy theorists and believers, and if so, it's working. I do wonder if it would be best for Icke and everyone else if he didn't get into that area, but I respect his preference to not hold back on anything he perceives as truth, as personally I don't believe he intentionally deceives the public. I think he's either sincere, or a truly brilliant actor.

    Here's a page listing different methods used to cover up potential conspiracies: Without Justice, there is JUST_US | Free Speech TV Community: Participatory Media
    See how many you recognise. Where I am, I see #1, #4, #12 and #14 the most.

  5. #35
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    My only issue with conspiracy theorists is that they tend to form their own dogma. I'm completely open to the idea that any of these things could be a reality and I'm also not going to just fall over and let people manipulate me, but I will take it all on critically and objectively. When conspiracy theorists (or skeptics if they want to call themselves that) turn around and start telling me that this is how it is and begin drawing generalizations from it even though they can't provide any proof beyond speculation, historical interpretation, or pseudoscience to back it up, then I'm not going to commit to that point of view. I would love to discount everyone of these damn things as hooey but some part of me won't let me do that.

  6. #36
    Senior Member xNFJiminy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    When conspiracy theorists (or skeptics if they want to call themselves that) turn around and start telling me that this is how it is and begin drawing generalizations from it even though they can't provide any proof beyond speculation, historical interpretation, or pseudoscience to back it up, then I'm not going to commit to that point of view.
    That's how I feel about journalists and anyone calling themselves an authority. I refuse to ask only the permitted questions and doubt only the things it's acceptable to doubt just because some unknown people at some unknown time for unknown reasons decided based possibly on those same factors or more sinister ones that that point of view was the one to support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I would love to discount everyone of these damn things as hooey but some part of me won't let me do that.
    May I be so bold as to suggest that the first part may be Fe and the other part, Ti? Even Ni can make you want to shut out threats to your model of reality, but at the same time be hungry for data for it. I have that dilemma, about other kinds of issues.

  7. #37
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    While certain government agencies do shady things and someone somewhere in the federal government is almost always up to no good, massive conspiracies at all levels (the type to be able to pull off some of the things you described) are unlikely IMO.
    Here's why: It's hard enough to get a group of 4 people to decide what to have for lunch or what movie to see. And if those 4 people DO manage to agree on something, good luck keeping it a secret.
    Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think the same principle applies.
    Unfortunately I think the higher the N, the more crazily paranoid a person tends to be I think.
    And no, in my experience once they make their minds up it's better to just back away slowly.

    Although, I will admit to suspicions that certain political parties are trying to kill the middle class and some religious groups are trying to take my civil rights.
    And I do spend a certain amount of time in my basement wearing a tinfoil shower cap to keep Pat Robertson's mind control rays out.

    There should be a paranoid tinfoil-shower-cap smiley.

  8. #38
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I think it's interesting that everyone is disgusted at the thought of our government doing anything immoral or shady, but the fact is...it is the things that we don't want to know about (and shouldn't know about) that keep us in power.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #39
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendacity View Post
    There should be a paranoid tinfoil-shower-cap smiley.
    You mean...



    Like this?

    Anyway, I do agree that we should keep trying to maintain awareness of what the government does, but not automatically assume they're "out to get us."

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    You mean...



    Like this?
    EXACTLY like that!!!! Brilliant! I have whole days when I feel that way

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I think it's interesting that everyone is disgusted at the thought of our government doing anything immoral or shady, but the fact is...it is the things that we don't want to know about (and shouldn't know about) that keep us in power.
    I just don't think that our government has the right to do things that the people it governs don't know about. The government is supposed to be FOR the people BY the people. Our government is supposed to BE the people. But that's my opinion and I understand that not everyone will agree. But I think if you look at the way Jefferson's presidency was and how he comported himself and the president it's very different from the way our government runs today. And I think that's too bad.
    Although I do understand the fact that many of our less admirable activities (such as outsourcing our jobs and producing most of our commodities in sweatshops) keep us as wealthy as we are (and I'm as guilty of benefiting from and enjoying that as anybody), I would also point out that the worth of the American dollar is decreasing steadily and something with out economy has to change soon or it will go the way of the peso.
    Anyway, that may be a bit off topic and I apologize. I tend to wax political when I've had a bit of wine, as I have this evening.

    goodnigh' chichago (hic!)

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