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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    I barely consider those in government competent enough to organise a piss up in a brewery, nevermind anything on that list.
    Here! Here! A sound mind!

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    ...

    One way to make sure crime doesn't pay would be to let the government run it. - Ronald Reagan
    <laughing & applauding> I LOVED Ronald Reagan.


    And you know who reminds me of him? Giuliani.

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Sadly, I think it ignores the reality that the simple explanation is often a conspiracy.....
    You have a high "N" factor, don't you?

  4. #24
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I don't know- I DO know that my ISTJ grandfather thinks that the government is up to no good and is plotting to screw him over though (Rush Limbaugh probably has something to do with that sort of thinking)!
    I personally think that the government has enough other things on it's plate at the moment to care about me- like lying, and lying about the lying!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    <laughing & applauding> I LOVED Ronald Reagan.


    And you know who reminds me of him? Giuliani.
    You liked Ronald Reagan as an actor- or as the President?

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Sadly, I think it ignores the reality that the simple explanation is often a conspiracy.

    I think anyone who has worked in a corporation has seen some of the stuff that happens behind closed doors. The "unlawful" bit of conspiracy doesn't always apply, making it... well, not a conspiracy... but it certain carries the will of a group. It's not some sort of disorganised group fighting it out internally, backstabbing. Things do get done and from the outside it may seem like chance or "moving a mountain"... but it was willful and premeditated.

    Same thing goes for governments. The concept that they are simple and disorganised is ridiculous - not just for the failures that we know about, but those that worked and we don't even know about.

    Simple example for the US is the first Iraq war, or almost any propoganda campaign. It seems surreal that you could convince 300 million people, at least in majority, without a single piece of factual evidence being presented, yet a small group from Kuwait managed to do it. It was repeated by a small group in the current administration. People don't just study psychology and group behaviour for fun...

    There is a protective dissonance around these kinds of things... a need to believe that it doesn't happen that way. But most legislation is created by a small group of people attempting to harm competition or protect themselves. Groups work on public opinion all the time... I'm overly familiar with one that was perpetuated by lawyers for the sole reason of creating more class action lawsuits, including hiring false experts, adding plots to hollywood and so forth.

    Simple is not always "simple".

    A group with a will can do incredible things that seem impossible. NWO is just as likely as any of the other smaller versions. Will is will and it is the simplest explanation.

    It's entirely different than "aliens" and "mind control"...
    Agreed. It seems that the people in this thread have forgotten about the recently released CIA Family Jewels.

    I don't believe in all the Illuminati, faked moon landing BS. But there are conspiracies organized every single day. It's a matter of identifying what's credible.

    I also laugh at people who fall back on Occam's Razor as though it's some sort of universal law. It's entirely arbitrary and subjective.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    You liked Ronald Reagan as an actor- or as the President?
    Reaganomics for the win!
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #28
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I also laugh at people who fall back on Occam's Razor as though it's some sort of universal law. It's entirely arbitrary and subjective.
    This one always gets me. It's as if the rule carries a little tag that says "Simple: Definition; a subjective word used to describe what you think is reasonable".

    Compare;

    American government using false flag terrorist acts on american soil to gain support for a war. Simplest explanation? Conspiracy (note: I'm talking about Northwood here - since I suspect most will think I'm talking about 9/11).

    Terrorist acts on American soil that supported an unrelated war. Simplest explanation? Multiple failures of intelligence before and during. Multiple failures of security. No slip ups by the groups involved.

    Right. When faced with something like the Northwood project, it seems obvious that at a high level, some people were willing to engineer terrorist activities to support a war. But without that data, it seems obvious that wide scale failures at multiple levels is more reasonable.

    Life isn't simple, government isn't stupid, or nice, or incompetent. They are very effective at what they do - lots of money, lots of brains, lots of will.

  9. #29
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    You liked Ronald Reagan as an actor- or as the President?
    I loved him as President. I don't think I've seen any of his movies. Whenever I listened to him speak, he made me proud to be an American. He was very inspiring.


    I would have thought that quote was taken from him during the time he was active in politics.

  10. #30
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I don't know- I DO know that my ISTJ grandfather thinks that the government is up to no good and is plotting to screw him over though (Rush Limbaugh probably has something to do with that sort of thinking)!
    I personally think that the government has enough other things on it's plate at the moment to care about me- like lying, and lying about the lying!
    Yeah, my ISTJ mother hates the federal gov't too.

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