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  1. #1
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Default Censorship: Which Types View Negativly vs. Favorably

    Recently read some posts regarding censorship of a specific category of speech pro and con. I originally thought that "the Graveyard" was for topics which were too much off topic and to offensive. But then one day one thread that seemed to raise some interesting points and in particular created an environment where ones could weigh how different MBII types differed in their views about a particular controversial subject/act (i.e. fellatio). It was started by a poster who seemed she was “against” or uncomfortable with women or herself (it was a little unclear what OPs intent was) doing it but majority of people (who posted) seemed to think it was OK under the right circumstances. Unfortunately for me and my quest for data it was not in the Graveyard it had simply been removed from the cit without any public notice.

    At the same time I see people posting on topics the wrong forums or derailing topics on threads well off the subject and find that annoying. When these acts are addressed/ censored I tend to applaud it.

    I also see some posters singled out wrongfully or rightfully, I don't know if is bullying or appropriate peer pressure/warning to others. I am relatively new here and don't want to make waves but I find the issue of freedom of speech/moderating content to be an interesting one. Particularly of interest is a prejudice/moral guideline on what type of content deserves higher priority than other types of content. Naturally in this forum the greatest priority to protect content is that of typography, yet learning typography like learning anthropology has the academic look into many other subjects psychology/sexuality/religion/popular culture/politics/ humor/ philosophy etc... their relationship to typography.

    The purpose of this thread is not to talk about one type of censorship (sexual censorship) but rather censorship in general. If you would be so kind to identify your MBII type with your view (if not already self identified under your avatar it would be appreciated). I am from the United States and we tend to hold our freedom of speech very near and dear, yet I am open to here other dissenting opinions or views from other countries/cultures without judgment.


    Here a wikipedia general definition of censorship and general rational of the censors in part.
    “Censorship is the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the government or media organizations as determined by a censor.”
    The rationale for censorship is different for various types of information censored:

    “Moral censorship is the removal of materials that are obscene or otherwise morally questionable. Pornography, for example, is often censored under this rationale, especially child pornography, which is censored in most jurisdictions in the world.
    Military censorship is the process of keeping military intelligence and tactics confidential and away from the enemy. This is used to counter espionage, which is the process of gleaning military information. Very often, militaries will also attempt to suppress politically inconvenient information even if that information has no actual intelligence value.
    Political censorship occurs when governments hold back information from their citizens. The logic is to exert control over the populace and prevent free expression that might foment rebellion.
    Religious censorship is the means by which any material objectionable to a certain faith is removed. This often involves a dominant religion forcing limitations on less prevalent ones. Alternatively, one religion may shun the works of another when they believe the content is not appropriate for their faith.
    Corporate censorship is the process by which editors in corporate media outlets intervene to halt the publishing of information that portrays their business or business partners in a negative light.[citation needed]”

    What are your thoughts on censorship and how different MBII types view censorship?

  2. #2
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    I don't really care for censorship as an ENTP, but I recognize the validity of its' need at times.

    While I disagree with total censorship of certain kinds (pornography... why? It doesn't really harm anyone so wth, don't force yeur morals on someone else), but there are other kinds which, despite my own desires, I realize need to occur.

    Situations which would require censorship are less about moral protection, and far moreso about safety. Some people just can't cope with certain types of information, and some people are so blindly retarded in terms of their obligations to each other's rights, that they insist on 'freedom of speech' even if they know it'll cause physical harm to another.

    For the former, an example would be if a sex scam occured in the white house. Big deal. It's a personal affair and has nothing to do with the capacity for running the country. But people would rather destroy their infrastructure over it, than allow a private matter to be handled... yeu know... privately.

    An example of the latter, is if yeu had an undercover police officer trying to gather information, and a reporter did a story on them and plastered it all over the newspapers that they were doing it and who it was, with pictures of their face. Yeah, that's going to get them killed, great job.

    People are stupid, and can't be trusted with information alot of the time unfortunately, because they won't use it responsibly. Hence... the suppression of information is sadly inevitable, for their own protection from themselves. If people wouldn't mishandle information provided, that kind of censorship wouldn't need to occur. Sadly, such is not the case.

    Censorship in terms of "we just don't think yeu have any right to watch this because it goes against our morals" is ridiculous though. Boston, for a long time, was ridiculous in it's censorship. There were cases of perfectly valid and ethical values presented in plays, movies, and so on... and these were censored because they didn't meet the hardcore watchman's moral compass... like for example, someone trying to put on a play that happens to have a scene where someone admits to being gay... BAM CENSORED YEU CAN'T PLAY THAT FILTH HERE!

    That kind of censorship is just stupid.

    In terms of the MBTI types, I think J's are far more prone to this moral censorship, as their views are more likely to be prone to strict, ridged concepts with reduced capacity to see other's perspectives, and insistance upon enforcing their own with the belief that only they can possibly be right, and they know whot's better for everyone else morally.

    Feelers are also a bit more prone to censorship, I'd imagine, due to looking at things from a perspective of how it evokes emotion within them, but not all I'd imagine. Moreso, I think it'd be the FJ combonation that would be the worst for it, having very powerfully embedded morals in an unhealthy individual, who feels it's their duty to enforce their own feelings and beliefs on everyone else around them at gunpoint. The whole "convert to christianity or I'm going to kill yeu for being evil" type dealie.

    Note that this's only in the unhealthy individuals, but I think they'd probably be the most prone to such. The other types are all at some degree of risk as well, T's can rationalize such actions to themselves, I's can come up with an idea on their own without any understanding of how it'd affect the outside world and others around them, but try to enforce it anyway, S's can focus far too much on minute details, N's too much on the concepts, banning things just for a concept provided, that an S would overlook entirely.

    Everyone's capable of such, but I do think the FJ's would be the most likely to fall for the whole "my view is absolute truth so go along with it or else".

  3. #3
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Default Slippery Slope

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    In terms of the MBTI types, I think J's are far more prone to this moral censorship, as their views are more likely to be prone to strict, ridged concepts with reduced capacity to see other's perspectives, and insistance upon enforcing their own with the belief that only they can possibly be right, and they know whot's better for everyone else morally.

    Feelers are also a bit more prone to censorship, I'd imagine, due to looking at things from a perspective of how it evokes emotion within them, but not all I'd imagine. Moreso, I think it'd be the FJ combonation that would be the worst for it, having very powerfully embedded morals in an unhealthy individual, who feels it's their duty to enforce their own feelings and beliefs on everyone else around them at gunpoint. The whole "convert to christianity or I'm going to kill yeu for being evil" type dealie.

    Note that this's only in the unhealthy individuals, but I think they'd probably be the most prone to such. The other types are all at some degree of risk as well, T's can rationalize such actions to themselves, I's can come up with an idea on their own without any understanding of how it'd affect the outside world and others around them, but try to enforce it anyway, S's can focus far too much on minute details, N's too much on the concepts, banning things just for a concept provided, that an S would overlook entirely.

    Everyone's capable of such, but I do think the FJ's would be the most likely to fall for the whole "my view is absolute truth so go along with it or else".
    Excellent post +1! I tend to agree on many of the intriguing aspects you raised. For the moment I will just address the part above that quoted you on yet may wish to go back and address some of your other points as well:

    Js (even borderline Js) tend to be more judgmental of speech in the sense that they often (and often rightfully so) don't see the big picture and precedent setting slippery slopes of restricting speech.

    Fs (even borderline Fs) on the other hand, although often wonderful people, will allow their emotions to limit their ability to view some speech logically, how this might set an impact on speech they think is important. Ironically it is the Fs who often howl the loudest when "it is their type of speech" which is now being affected from prior precedents. (i.e. ban on speech regarding sex becomes precedent of ban on some psychological or sociological topics and then a ban speech regarding religion or politics)

    Often my issue is the precedents are being set by the lowest common denominator and then broadly applied to the public at large "overbroad" rules.

    Some people don't just want to ban speech from their own eyes but want to stop other people from viewing the content too. I.e. Big Brothers.

  4. #4
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I beleive censorship is essential to society so long as it's not over done.

    The UK media often invade peoples privacy in innapropriate way and are out of controls. I do think that films should be graded for viewing and rules and boundaries set around specific content.

    I don't beleive that radical oppinions ought to be sensored but things for the public protection probably should. I don't want a 3 year old child exposed to horrific movie violence or xxx movies.

    I do think it's appropriate for society to collectively hold values because that is what laws and legalities are all about.

    You can be arested for having child pornography saved on your computer here, which I think it right and proper...

    I would point out that there is general apathy in this country for citizen's rights, startlingly so... Are the laws taken too far, right now I don't think so, but then I don't know what is not allowed to be seen.

    I belevie our censorship is less agressive in the UK than the US. I know we get some books published here than can not be published in the US.

    Censorship is ultimately the implimentation of law which is set throug the collective consiousness via political elected.

    A nessesary control, which is open to exploitation as any power is. We still don't get colour TV of Hitler and the Nazi's shown on our main TV channels - which I guess is a form of propoganda.

    The UK policy makers regularly review their powers and use of powers - and appropriateness.

    Sorry these are not the most focused thoughts on the subect - and more than a little rambling...

  5. #5
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    I view censorship negatively when it involves adults who are able to comprehend issues. With children, it's a whole another matter because they're not capable of fully understanding some subjects.

    I believe that information should not be put under a cover just because somebody finds it offensive to their beliefs. It's still a real issue and it's out there, no matter how much you try to avoid it. There should be an opportunity to discuss things in an open and honest manner if one chooses to and they shouldn't be condemned because if that.

    There can be an option to choose censorship on certain subjects if a person wishes not to know anything about them. A lot of people do live with blinders on but the majority is still curious about issues around them. If this gives them peace of mind, if they choose to close their eyes and mind to certain issues, they have the right to do so as well. And they, too, should not be condemned because of their choice.

    Unfortunately, with controversial matters, there can never be full consensus. And with this kind of access to information, I don't know if you can call it privilege, comes a lot of responsibility as well. And I agree with Katsuni here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    People are stupid, and can't be trusted with information alot of the time unfortunately, because they won't use it responsibly. Hence... the suppression of information is sadly inevitable, for their own protection from themselves. If people wouldn't mishandle information provided, that kind of censorship wouldn't need to occur. Sadly, such is not the case.
    As to MBTI, I agree with Katsuni, again, that everyon is capable of censorship.
    It really does depend on how healthy the person is in regards to their world view and personal experieces, how inquisitive and open-minded they are.

  6. #6
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    I view censorship negatively when it involves adults who are able to comprehend issues. With children, it's a whole another matter because they're not capable of fully understanding some subjects.

    I believe that information should not be put under a cover just because somebody finds it offensive to their beliefs. It's still a real issue and it's out there, no matter how much you try to avoid it. There should be an opportunity to discuss things in an open an honest manner if one chooses to and they shouldn't be condemned because if that.

    There can be an option to choose censorship on certain subjects if a person wishes not to know anything about them. A lot of people do live with blinders on but the majority is still curious about issues around them. If this gives them peace of mind, if they choose to close their eyes and mind to certain issues, they have the right to do so as well. And they, too, should not be condemned because of their choice. .
    Skyisblue, I agree what you say in general.
    I also think the subject of what speach children should be allowed hear/see; to ban children on hearing/seeing is interesting matter and something I believe the US Supreme court will hear and decide on soon. I am however worried about the "slippery slope" on how this will impact intellectual adults.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I don't believe that radical opinions ought to be censored but things for the public protection probably should. I don't want a 3 year old child exposed to horrific movie violence or xxx movies.
    I think this is an interesting point as well as an interesting grouping of sentense within a paragraph.

    It raises the issue and relationship of content and time/place/and manner. One of the siren's calls of censors is "its to protect the children". I like kids just as much as the next person but I don't want my "content" dictated by what some kid might see. Parent's should monitor their kids, the government should not be using the tactics of pulling on the heat strings of the public as a tactic to ban the content of speech. Particular speech that has a higher social value politics/art/religion/psychology/philosophy/medicine etc...
    In other words it often appears like people are using the interests of the group to limit the rights of the individual and often the rationale they espouse has little to do with their “real reasons”. Not only does the speech in question become directly effected but it generally causes a “chilling effect” to other speech that is on the outside of the parameters of the banned speech.

  7. #7
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I'm anti-censorship.

    Even as a young girl, when I saw something violent or disturbing, if I didn't like it, I looked away.

    In other words, I think human beings already censor themselves.

    So I'd rather have the choice to say nay, then to have no choice at all.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  8. #8
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    In other words, I think human beings already censor themselves..
    Oh yes people do censor themselves.
    And then Groups censor individuals, both directly and indirectly.
    Society, Authorities or Corporations censor groups.
    Governments censor Societies, Authorities and corporations.

    Combine that with the "chilling effect" and misunderstandings on what and what not is to be censored by the "thought police" and there is a substantial stifling within the human debate of ideas. The remaining options on what the individual can or can not censor themselves with is limited or otherwise lacking in substance (i.e. choice of censoring self between fluff and more fluff)

    Question: What is the general position of the S when it comes to censoring? I don’t know the answer and would be curious what others take on this question is.

  9. #9
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Helo pro censorship people, I know you are out there. Feel free to chime in...and let us know your MBII type.

  10. #10
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    I'm not pro-censorship, in general.
    I'm like CC, if I don't want to see something, I turn my head, log off, or walk away.
    I'm not into telling adults what they should be into, or what they "outta be" talking about.

    As far as children go, that's a more difficult situation. I have no desire to expose my child to adult themes for which he has no current application. I don't talk to him about sex or religion, unless he presents a question to me. I also don't want anyone else doing it either. If he ask me a question, I assume the issue is already at hand, and I respond as honestly as I can.

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