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  1. #21
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    The act of censorship stems from the desire to control one's environment to better match it to personal preferences. Some of the desires may be short term, like wanting the sexuality thread censored so that those threads don't have to be viewed. Some are longer term, like wanting violent and sexually explicit material restricted to premium channels so that children will grow up maintaining a sense of innocence. Problems arise because preferences between individuals vary.

    If I were required to finalize my judgments about censorship, I would have a generally negative view of short-term-desire censorship, and a rather skeptical view of longer-term-desire censorship. The first, due to the fact that short-term-desire censorship usually focuses of very specific preferences, which are often very different between individuals. Why force another to conform to your preferences? The second, due to the difficulty in predicting how current censorship will achieve the intended preferences. For example, my main goal as a parent would be to have a healthy, happy, well adjusted child; and I think most parents would share that view. However, how do I know that keeping violent and sexual television from them will ensure that they are happier, healthier, and more well adjusted? It seems possible, and somewhat probable, but developmental psychology is complex, and performing a specific action without a deep understanding of the consequences seems very ominous to me.

    I like to think of humans and their environment as a pair of interrelated equations.

    On the macro level: H(E,en) and E(H,hn)
    On the individual level: hn(en,E) and en(hn,H)

    Where E is the general perceived environment of a culture, H is the general state of the population of a culture, en is the environment specific to individual "n" and hn is the personality of the individual "n".

    Most censorship is general in nature, that is, it is a censorship aimed at affecting E. The problem stems from the very very very massive and complex scope of the equation E(H,hn). What E might yield the appropriate hn for one individual "n," might not do so for the next individual. Furthermore, because H can be viewed as more or less a sumtotal of all equations hn, such varied effects on the micro level will very likely result in an unforeseeable change in H, which in turn will result in further changes to E which are unexpected, so on and so forth. My point: if the only known result of an action is discontent in a particular part of the population due to a stifling of their desires, why do it?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #22
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    I'm against censorship.
    Now, shut the fuck up.
    The future is for the unafraid.

  3. #23
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I'm against censorship.
    Now, shut the fuck up.
    LOL. IIIiiiiiirony.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    Ginkgo
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    I am anti-censorship as well. Everyone should have the right to express themselves freely, whether it be by art, music, poetry, television, or any other media.

    Self admittedly, there are some television programs that I don't like. These programs spread disinformation, but I suppose "information" is only true in the eye of the beholder.

    I just hope that the media strives to protect the truth (which I know they don't). Ah, fuck it. All they want is ratings.

  5. #25
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    The act of censorship stems from the desire to control one's environment to better match it to personal preferences. Some of the desires may be short term, like wanting the sexuality thread censored so that those threads don't have to be viewed. Some are longer term, like wanting violent and sexually explicit material restricted to premium channels so that children will grow up maintaining a sense of innocence. Problems arise because preferences between individuals vary.

    If I were required to finalize my judgments about censorship, I would have a generally negative view of short-term-desire censorship, and a rather skeptical view of longer-term-desire censorship. The first, due to the fact that short-term-desire censorship usually focuses of very specific preferences, which are often very different between individuals. Why force another to conform to your preferences? The second, due to the difficulty in predicting how current censorship will achieve the intended preferences. For example, my main goal as a parent would be to have a healthy, happy, well adjusted child; and I think most parents would share that view. However, how do I know that keeping violent and sexual television from them will ensure that they are happier, healthier, and more well adjusted? It seems possible, and somewhat probable, but developmental psychology is complex, and performing a specific action without a deep understanding of the consequences seems very ominous to me.
    You lost me on the 2nd mathematics part (I am one of the rare INTPs who is bad at math) but very fasinating as far as the motivation of a censor. +1

  6. #26
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    But if nobody is to be trusted do we trust having our options limited by some high and migty censors, and who is watching/censoring the censors?
    Here in lies the problem with everything in society. It is very, very difficult to ensure a just administration, but on the other hand, people are clearly imbeciles about ruling themselves.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  7. #27
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    The best "censorship" is the choice of individuals in the open marketplace of ideas. Only speech/publication of things that directly hurts others (like child porn, making tangible threats, libel/slander) should be punished by the government.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #28
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The best "censorship" is the choice of individuals in the open marketplace of ideas. Only speech/publication of things that directly hurts others (like child porn, making tangible threats, libel/slander) should be punished by the government.
    Excellent point by pure_mercury as to the market place of ideas. Allowing ideas to thrive off of each other and limit regulation only to that speech which directly harms other people.

    The market place of ideas is not too different from the open market of capitalism (or the way the open market of capitalism if their was a truly free market (sans antitrust issues) . The market place of ideas often like in a true free market economy regulates itself to a degree. The stronger idea will inevitably prevail (hopefully before we destroy ourselves or are taken over by a totalitarian regime).

    PS. I know what you are saying Magic Poriferan, sometimes it feels like a choice between two evils.

  9. #29
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    censorship is bad, real bad. mmmHmm

    Parents may or may not wish to censor what their children are exposed to, but that should be left up to the parents.

    I think the medium is more important. Censor television/movies/internet, don't censor books. I would rather let my (hypothetical, hopefully) kid(s) read violent, sexually-deviant books than watch violent, sexually-deviant television or movies. There is a huuuuuge difference between reading about an act vs. watching the (simulated) act.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  10. #30
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Self censorship is always an option for ourselves and for family. The point of self censorship is that it is our choice, the choice is not taken away, and the choice can be undone. Government or Institutional censorship tends to be a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It is a slippery slope, creates a "chilling effect" and creates an atmosphere of unequal enforcement and fuzzy logic. (i.e. we are banning this thread because it is a sexual related topic and has nothing to do with MBII yet we will keep this Sports topic that nobody is reading or participating in because it is not offensive (to me).

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