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  1. #61
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    haha, they don't teach about the haymarket massacre in schools.
    I had to learn about it by reading a book. thank god I'm an atheistic commie.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  2. #62
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    haha, they don't teach about the haymarket massacre in schools.
    I had to learn about it by reading a book. thank god I'm an atheistic commie.
    It's absolutely amazing to me. This is something that a huge number of people in every other industrialized country in the world is intimately familiar with due to its common emphasis in education, and yet Americans know nothing! I really think that's going to be the major development in thought of the early 21st Century - a great appreciation of Marx as a descriptor of capitalism, completely ignoring his prescriptions that have proven to be absolutely untrue.

    Marx might have been the best critic of capitalism that there's ever been - too bad he never could quit while he was ahead. Plenty of people during the Yezhovshchina could have been spared meaningless suffering.

  3. #63
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaybeLogic View Post
    haha, they don't teach about the haymarket massacre in schools.
    I had to learn about it by reading a book. thank god I'm an atheistic commie.

    I learned about it in school. A lot of people do, they just never remember it.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #64
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's absolutely amazing to me. This is something that a huge number of people in every other industrialized country in the world is intimately familiar with due to its common emphasis in education, and yet Americans know nothing! I really think that's going to be the major development in thought of the early 21st Century - a great appreciation of Marx as a descriptor of capitalism, completely ignoring his prescriptions that have proven to be absolutely untrue.

    Marx might have been the best critic of capitalism that there's ever been - too bad he never could quit while he was ahead. Plenty of people during the Yezhovshchina could have been spared meaningless suffering.

    What about the other 73 years of oppression and murder in the Soviet Union?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #65
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    oh, see, they called it the haymarket affair in our freshman history course and it was one of those little boxes in the margins and it was barely a paragraph long. The teacher spent two minutes on it....not nearly enough time to actually learn about a complex sequence of historical events.

    I suppose they spent about two minutes on anything that didn't have to do with WWII or the Civil War(which is really big in this state) I think we spent two weeks on the Civil War and watched a movie: Glory.... Absurd teaching strategy.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  6. #66
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    What about the other 73 years of oppression and murder in the Soviet Union?
    You mean political prisoners and state-sponsored terrorism? That wasn't unique to the Soviet Union - the main reason we pushed the Civil Rights Act through was because how bad our policy made us look in Communist propaganda.

    There was no "better" party and no "worse" party during the Cold War. There was simply the more technologically advanced one. The USSR post-Stalin was pretty damn boring - if you went to work and didn't pipe up too much, you'd be fine. Much as in the US. If you happened to be a political dissident, you'd get plenty of unwanted attention - much as happened here during the late 1960s. This was also the same if you were an undesirable minority.

    You cannot claim any moral superiority for this country as soon as you look at incarceration statistics. We may not have had a catchy name like "gulag archipelago", but in plenty of prison farms all over the country, the effect was the same.

  7. #67
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You mean political prisoners and state-sponsored terrorism? That wasn't unique to the Soviet Union - the main reason we pushed the Civil Rights Act through was because how bad our policy made us look in Communist propaganda.
    I meant the large-scale kidnapping, deportation, and murder of political dissidents. There is no comparison between the United States and the Soviet Union in that regard, although internment camps and rigged prosecutions of blacks and immigrants was pretty bad in the first half of the 20th Century.

    For the record, I am against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 on freedom of association grounds.


    There was no "better" party and no "worse" party during the Cold War. There was simply the more technologically advanced one. The USSR post-Stalin was pretty damn boring - if you went to work and didn't pipe up too much, you'd be fine. Much as in the US. If you happened to be a political dissident, you'd get plenty of unwanted attention - much as happened here during the late 1960s. This was also the same if you were an undesirable minority.
    Yes, there was. The United States was better and the Soviet Union was worse. The United States had political protest all the time and public figures criticizing the government in the broadcast media regularly. Either you're joking, or you're so blinded by ideology that you cannot recognize simple differences.


    You cannot claim any moral superiority for this country as soon as you look at incarceration statistics. We may not have had a catchy name like "gulag archipelago", but in plenty of prison farms all over the country, the effect was the same.
    That is ridiculous. I can and will claim moral superiority to the Soviet Union. When you look at for WHAT people were incarcerated, you can see how awful things were there. It's one thing to say: "The United States did terrible things in the 20th Century." That is clearly true. It's another to say "The United States and the Soviet Union were morally/ethically equivalent." That is clearly false.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #68
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's interesting. After I traveled outside of the U.S., I had a much greater appreciation for how great it is here.
    Raindancing wrote a good post.

    To be born in Finland is like to win in the lottery blah blah. This is what you hear in this country, day after day after day.

    But you know what, merc. After each day comes the night.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Raindancing wrote a good post.

    To be born in Finland is like to win in the lottery blah blah. This is what you hear in this country, day after day after day.

    But you know what, merc. After each day comes the night.

    I am sure being Finnish is quite enjoyable. It's one of the other 25-30 countries which are decent places to live.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #70
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    A war can't be fought without willing soldiers. A government can't attack another unless they have people willing to fire the guns..............................
    Perhaps my opinion on that isn't shared by many, and many think it's always good to be 'defending yeur country!'... except... the most recent war wasn't in defense. It was an attack. Against an enemy that wasn't really a threat. That's not defense, that's attack, and those who did the attack knew better and did it anyway.
    .

    I don't beleive that people are always given the choice in a real sense. In the UK there was massive marches against the current war, and the government paid no attention. People in Britain typically don't protest on mass, you get sub groups on kicks, but not the general population. I wrote to my MP and the Forgen ofice at the time etc. This was not a war condoned by the people....

    On the other hand I don't think Tony Blair had much of a choice, our ecconomy is still way to dependant on the US to really be able to make a stand on such things.

    As for soldiers, well conscription takes real choices away, social pressure as well.

    And yes, when the country is not under any threat directly it's an attack...


    Lowtech:
    I don't know about Korea, it's not something I'm particulalry up on, but if there was an attack made by the Koreans on the US directly, then the country would have fair cause... however if the US went in in order to tout it's values - then it's brutality...

    You are assuming your country's obession that communisim is wrong is correct, but you're just buying the propoganda you have been brought up with. I've met people who lived in communist countries (ex now), and I've had very mixed opinions, people who thought it was OK and those who don't... I am playing with you, I don't have particualrly strong beliefs about i communsim is a good or bad thing, hence invading another country because of it is super agressive in my book.

    All developing countries including the US and the UK all have oppressive regimes as part of their development.... It's not up to one or two countries to take the law into their own hands and force their will on the population.

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