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  1. #31
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We have had our history wars here. And they still seems to be continuing.

    On the one hand we have the black armband view of history. And on the other the appreciation of our achievements.

    I must say I prefer to hear two historical voices rather than one. Even though they tend to be in conflict.

    And conflicting views produces not only heat but light as well. And we need the light to see.
    How do Australian history books handle aboriginal history?

  2. #32
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    ...
    America IS not revolutionary, not was not revolutionary.

    No one should rest upon laurels gifted to others who happen to be from the same place. As an englishman and a person who works in engineering I can say this with some certainty.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnFpFer View Post
    How do Australian history books handle aboriginal history?
    On the one hand the arrival of the First Fleet is described as an invasion.

    And on the other, it is described as a settlement.

    And on one hand we are accused of genocide, and on the other it pointed out that disease moved up the river systems well ahead of the settlers and decimated the tribes.

    But of course all this has relevance today, as aboriginal life is simply a horror story of bashing and murder, of rape and child sexual abuse.

    On one hand they say it is because of dispossession, but on the other side they say it is a result of aboriginal culture.

    But to get it in perspective it is important to know that at the time of settlement there were about 600,000 inhabiting a whole Continent and outlying islands. And today there are considerably more.

    But the problems we have here today are startlingly similar to the problems all tribal people have in confronting the modern world.

    At this moment the government is engaged in a massive project called, The Intervention, and billions of dollars are being spent to try to solve the problem. But personally, I am pessimistic. I think it is an intractable problem.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    America IS not revolutionary, not was not revolutionary.

    No one should rest upon laurels gifted to others who happen to be from the same place. As an englishman and a person who works in engineering I can say this with some certainty.
    As an Englishman we are delighted to listen to you. However America is a successful bourgeois revolution. They do not want continuous revolution. And they certainly do not want to overturned by a proletarian revolution.

    They have won their treacherous revolution against lawful authority and built the most successful mercantile empire the world has ever seen.

    But most of all their success is seen as proof that God has smiled on their bourgeois revolution.

    And who can gainsay the Deity - after all, it is in God we trust.

  5. #35
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And who can gainsay the Deity - after all, it is in God we trust.
    China.

    That was easy

    Seriously though, in england they bemoan the loss of engineering and yet it's their own "we did this, and that, and that" which killed it. Who cares who made the first phone when all of them are now made elsewhere?

    America seems to be falling to the same plague. Only entertainment remains.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    China.

    That was easy

    Seriously though, in england they bemoan the loss of engineering and yet it's their own "we did this, and that, and that" which killed it. Who cares who made the first phone when all of them are now made elsewhere?

    America seems to be falling to the same plague. Only entertainment remains.
    It's true.

  7. #37
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I agree with both your points, there are many bleak period of US history and indeed modern history....

    hmmmm ....what were the so call weapons of mass distruction that were found as the cause of invading a country.....

    McCarthy is just medievil, Hoover's regime wasn't exactly lilly white, vietnam, history of native americans is not exactly touted as glory days...

    Basically US foriegn policy has always been some what ropey at best.... agressive pursuit of democracy is no different from the UK history of colonialisim.

    Pretty much all countries have history that can be viewed in harsh light....

    Hoover's administration was bumbling, but nothing compared to the horrors of Wilson, FDR, or Truman. And McCarthy was an asshole, but also late to the game. As I've pointed out before, there was a major Communist infiltration of the federal government in the FDR and Truman administrations.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    As I've pointed out before, there was a major Communist infiltration of the federal government in the FDR and Truman administrations.
    As one espionage historian put it, there was never a time when obtaining top secret information about the US government was easier. The KGB(well actually NKVD at this time) had a field day.

  9. #39
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Hoover's administration was bumbling, but nothing compared to the horrors of Wilson, FDR, or Truman. And McCarthy was an asshole, but also late to the game. As I've pointed out before, there was a major Communist infiltration of the federal government in the FDR and Truman administrations.
    I'll take your word for it (my US history is pretty sketchy), I was basically agreeing with you that there is nothing lilly white about US history, but that is true of almost all countries. History is written by the winners there are horrors in all countries developments....

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    History is written by the winners....
    Yes, it's true. History is written by the Victors.

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