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  1. #11
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    I don't disagree, though the main topic or the main question to the topic is how well can 5 to 12 year olds grasp concepts beyond good vs evil and us vs them, childen at such an age are extremely hedonistic and their views on life reflect that.
    Yes this is a stumbling block and yeah, you can't go and scare them but kids shouldn't be underestimated. There are ways of getting around it.

    For example: one must take care in telling the history almost exclusively from the white settlers' persective over minorities perspectives, who are surely just as American. American kids should be able to identify with both the settlers and the minorities as their forebears. If you try telling parts of the story from the point of view of the native americans: their culture, how they saw the white settlers, what they were concerned about in their behaviour, then compare and contrast with settler goals and interests etc - then you can deal with the complexity and address the negatives without pointing fingers.

    I'm not sure as to what degree America does this. My country (don't get me wrong it has a rich history in shitty behaviour) has approached education from this angle - and slowly leaked the bad history to kids, with more depth as they grow up. I found it a good way to slowly present it and we managed to handle it.

  2. #12
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Southern Kross;837034]QUOTE]

    I find history very similar to politics, in that you can witness the same event yet come up with many different views on such.

    I generally like our system (assuming it hasn't changed, if this women is bringing in this complain, it obviously has), where the basic and dry material, material that is incredible hard to disagree with is covered first with the advantage of being able to cover a wider span of years due to each period only getting to the basics, then once cognitive functions and critical thinking develop and allow the child to disagree or to give alternate opinions, then more controversial, more depth, more gruesome facts would better suit them. At ages 5 to 12, what teachers say becames a fact regardless of reality.

    Again my $.02

  3. #13
    actinomycetes raindancing's Avatar
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    That video is disturbing...
    (although not surprising :rolli

    I grew up in America but moved to New Zealand when I was 18 (my husband is from NZ).
    I saw a huge disparity between events as explained by US schools and how they were viewed by the rest of the world, not to mention the difference in how Americans were taught to view themselves and their country vs the way people in other countries viewed them.

    In America, I was taught that everyone thinks America is the greatest, everyone wants to be American, we are the luckiest people in the world to be living in this amazing and most free country, etc etc.

    Then I traveled and saw that things weren't exactly as I had been told. :eek:

    The 'history' I was taught in the US was not about truth, it could more accurately have be called propaganda.
    “Can a man of perception respect himself at all?”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  4. #14
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindancing View Post
    That video is disturbing...
    (although not surprising :rolli

    I grew up in America but moved to New Zealand when I was 18 (my husband is from NZ).
    I saw a huge disparity between events as explained by US schools and how they were viewed by the rest of the world, not to mention the difference in how Americans were taught to view themselves and their country vs the way people in other countries viewed them.

    In America, I was taught that everyone thinks America is the greatest, everyone wants to be American, we are the luckiest people in the world to be living in this amazing and most free country, etc etc.

    Then I traveled and saw that things weren't exactly as I had been told. :eek:

    The 'history' I was taught in the US was not about truth, it could more accurately have be called propaganda.

    That's interesting. After I traveled outside of the U.S., I had a much greater appreciation for how great it is here.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #15
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    "History is a set of lies agreed upon."
    -Napoleon Bonaparte

    I'm glad history was my worst subject.

  6. #16
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    As far as my knowledge goes, early school seeks to cover a large span of history, then as you go on in levels, they fill in the blanks, for example in school the civil war was merely a war to free the slaves, yet it took until the early 20th century to gain legal rights and then 50-60 years later to enforced legal rights? Wait a second, wasn't this about freeing the slaves? Later on, other interests in the Civil war are explained, once you get further into your education.

    Now, why do you think that is? This is easier for those with hedonistic tendencies to comprehend, as our mental development progresses, we gain the ability to discern things and to critically think, thus why they gives us the skeleton and then fill it up with meat, once we can critically think vs just accecpting items as 100% facts.
    Yes, a good primary and secondary education teaches your culture. And a good tertiary education transcends your culture.

    And until you learn your culture, it is impossible to transcend it.

  7. #17
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's interesting. After I traveled outside of the U.S., I had a much greater appreciation for how great it is here.
    I had the same perspective after studying IR....of course, most of the shit people with reflexively anti-American sentiment bring up with apparently smug intent I already knew, with the context and comparative perspective included.

  8. #18
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJ123 View Post
    I'm glad history was my worst subject.
    Based on your propensity toward antisemitic conspiracy theories, I'm not surprised....

  9. #19
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Like every country, it is so important for the US to own up to their previous mistakes. Education is a good place to start.
    And one of the biggest mistakes was the 1776 bourgeois revolution.

    And the revolution permeates all institutions and way of thinking, and has even shaped a sense of humour.

    And there is no way out in reading our own history. The only way out is to read comparative history. Particularly comparing ourselves to countries that have never had a revolution, neither bourgeois or proletarian.

    And then we start to see ourselves, not as others see us, but as we are.

  10. #20
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cogdecree View Post
    As far as my knowledge goes, early school seeks to cover a large span of history, then as you go on in levels, they fill in the blanks, for example in school the civil war was merely a war to free the slaves, yet it took until the early 20th century to gain legal rights and then 50-60 years later to enforced legal rights? Wait a second, wasn't this about freeing the slaves? Later on, other interests in the Civil war are explained, once you get further into your education.

    Now, why do you think that is? This is easier for those with hedonistic tendencies to comprehend, as our mental development progresses, we gain the ability to discern things and to critically think, thus why they gives us the skeleton and then fill it up with meat, once we can critically think vs just accecpting items as 100% facts.
    But the civil war wasn't really about freeing slaves at all. Abraham Lincoln set the slaves free in the South (by authority that wasn't rightfully his) in order to defeat it. The civil war was really about the sovereignty of the states.

    And this touches on a crucial point. Not only do they try to blank out the negatives, they completely rewrite history. This is the problem with public schooling. We're forced to be taught the way the government wants us to be taught, thus we're encapsulated in a delusional world of nationalism that no one really questions (until it gets insanely bad, and even then we waver).

    Nothing should be covered up, not even with kids because then they start off with a good impression which solidifies into a false assumption. For instance, the very foundation of our civilization here in the US is mired in blood. We killed natives who were willing to share the land with us and have forgotten about them ever since.

    We live in a unique place and age where children can be properly sheltered. I think we can say that for the most part this hasn't been true throughout the world and human history. What is it about this stuff that they can't handle? It's not their poor little psyches that are in trouble, it's us.
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