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  1. #41
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    That makes alot of sense Cafe, I hadn't known that, but I'm not surprised either. And am quite thankful for it ^^

    And Peguy, sorry, I ramble and rant alot XD

  2. #42
    Sniffles
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    No problem. I just want to be able to give a full reply to some of your arguments. ATM, I'm a little tuckered out plus I have a major engagement to get to later - so I need to save my strength.

  3. #43
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    No problems =D Rest, relax, enjoy yeurself! I usually find debate energizing if nothing else XD

    Then again I think that's where the E vs I dispairity comes in =3

    So enjoy a nice relaxing bath or something quiet ^^

  4. #44
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I've known of Protestant churches to have problems with this, too. Predators seek out places where they have access to children and where people are expected to not think evil for others (in their group, at least) and there is a tradition of respect for authority figures. It's an easy hunting ground.

    I think I began needing a criminal background check in order to work with children at church in the early nineties, but it's been a long time, so I'm not sure. I know I had to have one in the early 2000s when I was helping with childrens' church. The church's insurance required it and that pastor had had problems with predators in his church before, so he wanted them done anyway.

    When I put my kids in public school in 2005, a background check was required for attending field trips or coming the the school in any volunteering capacity.

    The background checks are very limited, though. I'm pretty sure they only work if you've been caught and convicted and they used to be only regional. Not sure how they work now.

    The elementary schools my children have attended have cameras throughout the building, but I'm sure someone who was very familiar with their locations could find a way around them with a little effort.
    Cafe,

    Other churches do have this issue, along with nursery schools, kids social club volenteers etc... Anywhere where there are vulnerable people and adults in power without much supervision.

    Police checks can only pick up on convictions to my knowledge so suspected incidents are not logged (at least in this country). Typically this type of work is either not paid/funded for checking or poorly paid, in which case the carer can move around and thus make it difficult to get a good handle on past behaviours.

    ...........................
    on other comments....

    The trouble with religious institutions is that they are bigger (globablly) and more powerful than others - hence have bigger issues.

    The book on Risk I mentioned before talks about how the meida misrepresent reported statistics to make it look like younger children - so 80% of the sexual assults are on 16 year old + boys... which isn't kids but is still sexual assults.. these get miss represented by being swept into ped stats... also the age of concent is inconsistant.

    This is true of most reporting of sex crimes, when the vast majority of child abductions is the father taking his children away from the mother, or 15 year old girls running off with her 16 year old boy friend... the real rate of childhood abductions are teeny tiny (and I know one is one too many). Figures/statistics are used to manipulate peoples fears.

  5. #45
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
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    I wonder how many of these priest doing the diddling were once young catholic boys that got diddled themselves by priests.

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default The Ideal and the Real

    The Canberra Times has recently uncovered a paedophile ring among Marist teaching Brothers and published it on the front page.

    The Marist Brothers have appologized to the Bishop of Canberra for causing scandal.

    And it seems that it is scandal that is the greater sin.

    And why not, as it is scandal that tarnishes the image of the Church.

    And the image of the Church depends on idealization.

    And it is this ideal image of the Church that is used to blind us to the reality.

  7. #47
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    By most estimates, they're not actually.
    I have to wonder how accurate any such estimate could hope to be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No, as I mentioned above, the testimony of many of these pedophiles actually points to the opposite. They're struggling with their pedophile tendencies and seek a religious way of life in order to help overcome them.
    So they sought a religious position involving long stretches of unsupervised time with young children and a position of moral authority over them...so that they could fight their tendency toward pedophilia. Right-o!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    No it isn't, since there's actually more incidents of pedophile activity within not only public schools but even churches that do allow for married priests.
    Then why does the Catholic church (as opposed to other Christian denominations) get all the media coverage for it? That seems kind of strange.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Canberra Times has recently uncovered a paedophile ring among Marist teaching Brothers and published it on the front page.

    The Marist Brothers have appologized to the Bishop of Canberra for causing scandal.

    And it seems that it is scandal that is the greater sin.

    And why not, as it is scandal that tarnishes the image of the Church.

    And the image of the Church depends on idealization.

    And it is this ideal image of the Church that is used to blind us to the reality.
    Ok ok, I guess even Victor deserves praise when he makes a good post.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #48
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    So they sought a religious position involving long stretches of unsupervised time with young children and a position of moral authority over them...so that they could fight their tendency toward pedophilia. Right-o!
    See my post about the safeguards in place; the catholic church has alot more strict safeguards, but alot more pressure as well. One does not always cancel the other out, however.


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Then why does the Catholic church (as opposed to other Christian denominations) get all the media coverage for it? That seems kind of strange.
    Well keep in mind that most protestent churches and such, the pastor doesn't have much direct time alone with anyone, children included. The catholic church is far more emphaized that their priesthood spends practically their entire lives within the church in one form or another. More opportunities provides more possibility for issues like these to occur.

    It may very well NOT be any more common, it just has more measurable evidence.

    That and the fact that the catholic church is generally more widespread than most so there's more chances simply out of larger sample size.

    There may be other factors which encourages the weighted statistics as well, though I'm not sure whot they'd be at this moment. I'm not trying to single out catholics or anything even though it may look that way, it just happens to be, due to various factors, the most obvious target to latch onto at the moment.

  9. #49
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    There may be other factors which encourages the weighted statistics as well, though I'm not sure whot they'd be at this moment. I'm not trying to single out catholics or anything even though it may look that way, it just happens to be, due to various factors, the most obvious target to latch onto at the moment.
    Kat - you are not coming over as Catholic bashing or anything, it's media driven not you... from what I can see.

    The Catholic church is the biggest, and most powerful (in certain ways) and has to an extent very badly understood practices - which can be misinterpreded. It also advocates behvious to the members about how they behave - not just as a don't do it, but it's a mortal sin... so it bigs things up a fair bit. They also tend to bury their heads in the sand falling back on traditional behind closed doors approach where I think the other churches are more open, therefore the media would just see them as a huge target... in the same way MacDonalds is the root of all evil fast food...

  10. #50
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    When he was a young boy at a Catholic-run institute for the deaf, Alessandro Vantini said, priests sodomized him so relentlessly he came to feel "as if I were dead."

    I don't understand how a child is anally raped repeatedly and nobody knows about it. It seems physically impossible. Where were they that nobody heard him scream the first time, much less repeated times?

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