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  1. #21
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Its worth the cost of the civil court settlements and I wish their were more criminal court prosecutions.
    And note, not one, not one Bishop has had his day before a Criminal Court.

    Over the last few weeks the Canberra Times has revealed a paedophile ring of Marist Brothers operating in the Catholic education system.

    And the Canberra Times is a conservative newspaper with a conservative Roman Catholic editor. And although the Marist Brothers have been brought before our Criminal Court, the Bishop of Canberra hasn't had his day in Court. And indeed he has denied there was a paedophile ring.

    But remember that for the first time in history, over the last twenty years, child sexual abuse has been prosecuted in our Criminal Courts. Before that the sexual abuse of children was covered up. And it wasn't even possible to talk about it. Group bullying ruled the roost.

    And today in the Third World such as The Philippines and South America it is still not possible to talk about child sexual abuse, never mind prosecute it in the Criminal Courts.

    We have a long way to go. And the first step is to break the silence and the group bullying.

  2. #22
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    The pope really has to do more too

  3. #23
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    There's several reasons for the situation to occur in the first place:

    - The catholic church insists on priests abstinence of sexual contact in general, masturbation is a sin, etc, in short, their innate instincts are suppressed to a point where eventually it's more likely they'll break out in short, violent bursts similar to someone who bottles up anger all the time with no release valve.

    - Having an unquestioned position of power, in which many will not even try to oppose such is a WONDERFUL place for a sex offender to be... they seek these positions out like moths to the flame, so those which aren't converted to being predators by the position, take the position on purpose.

    - The catholic church in particular has specialized rules in relation to sexual offences, in particular, if a sexual offence occurs, ie pedophilia, rape, etc, then both the offender AND the victim are NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK OF SUCH until 10 years after that date, or 10 years after the date in which the victim reaches adulthood; failure to do so, even before a jury, is punished by excommunication from the church (they are automatically damned eternally to hell according to their faith, with no means of redemption).

    These rules just further entice sexual offenders to take these positions because it's even harder than normal to catch them... rape and adults preying on children have an innate shroud of difficulty to begin with; if there's no physical evidence (which's rarely the case anyway), it's practically impossible to prove their involvement in the first place, and with a high position of power, it's virtually impossible to make the accusation in the first place without looking bad to begin with. Most rapes and child abuses are COMPLETELY UNREPORTED due to the fact that it's exceptionally rare that anyone will believe them, and even more rare that a male will be believed, hence the whole "choir boy" scandal thing... because they were the least likely of anyone to ever come forth and be believed.

    Due to this, and many other contributing factors, these things ENCOURAGE pedophiles and sexual offenders in general to seek out positions under the papacy as they're protected on many levels by such.

    If yeu REALLY wanted little kids to 'like' yeu in a sexual way, wouldn't it make the most sense to do so from a position where yeu're almost guaranteed safety from retribution?

    Hell, if the pope himself raped someone IN PUBLIC, due to laws inacted by Bush jr, he literally can NOT be charged in the USA. Sure his favour and religion would probably fall to the ground and crumble, but he couldn't be legally attacked for such as he's been given special exemptions.

    The USA in particular also has many other laws protection religion above all else, there's been hundreds of cases of outright murder, abuse, sexual predatation and so on, especially against minors, which have been completely ignored or gone uncharged, due to the religious connotations involved in the cases.

    These kinds of religious sheilds prevent anyone from being charged if the act is part of a religious ceremony. For example, polygamy may be illegal in many states, but if yeur religion practices it, yeu can't be charged for such. If yeu kill someone by beating them to death with a hammer, as long as yeu were 'trying to exercize a demon' from them, many states provide religious protection which prevents yeu from being prosecuted for such.

    Would it really surprise yeu at all to think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, that people would actively seek out these things if they were going to commit those acts anyway, since it would kind of make sense to do so from a position that it couldn't be used against them? >.>

    So yeah, it's not just a "small %" unfortunately, it's actually a fairly notably large % to be perfectly blunt, in relation to the normal population. Chances are very high that the rate of sexual predators in the church's upper tiers, priesthood and beyond, is over 100X that of the normal rate for the remainder of the population. Because it A: encourages predators to seek out such positions of power, B: protects them, and C: converts some who weren't to begin with into becomming so.

    These're very powerful incentives, so it's not exactly like it'd be strange or even abnormal for such to occur.

  4. #24
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    The catholic church in particular has specialized rules in relation to sexual offences, in particular, if a sexual offence occurs, ie pedophilia, rape, etc, then both the offender AND the victim are NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK OF SUCH until 10 years after that date, or 10 years after the date in which the victim reaches adulthood; failure to do so, even before a jury, is punished by excommunication from the church (they are automatically damned eternally to hell according to their faith, with no means of redemption)......it's practically impossible to prove their involvement in the first place, and with a high position of power, it's virtually impossible to make the accusation in the first place without looking bad to begin with. Most rapes and child abuses are COMPLETELY UNREPORTED due to the fact that it's exceptionally rare that anyone will believe them, and even more rare that a male will be believed, hence the whole "choir boy" scandal thing... because they were the least likely of anyone to ever come forth and be believed.
    .
    Hmm do you happen have any authority you could cite to support your third point. (10 years cooling off or otherwise excommunication). I never heard of this and if it was applicable I seriously doubt it still is.

    “In the mind of the victim” it may seem difficulty task to prosecute a pedophile but at least in the United States especially California it is pretty easy. Many who are guilty (or even not guilty) will take the plea bargain if one is offered due to the modern strick sentencing for these crimes. (I recommend a documentary Witch Hunt produced by Sean Penn [free on netflicks via streaming] to show how easy it is, even if the accused is innocent to illustrate the point) The emotional impact of the crime and the trust in the prosecution’s ethics/authority are often enough for juries to overlook strict adhearsion to the “beyond reasonable belief” standard.

    [The exception being, depending who is the district attorney, in divorce cases and child custody cases because so often in those situation fabricated accounts of abuse happen so often.]

    As to the sexual repression and power points you made I agree. I also think that there is a predisposition in the predators as another poster noted. No sexual repression would get a normal person to do that to a child. Maybe sexual repression would be enough for a otherwise normal man to do it to a postpubescence teenager but for them to do it to a child shows a really sick mind from the get go IMO.

  5. #25
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    I'm not bothering to read Victor's posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    The pope really has to do more too
    That's basically the heart of the situation. Discipline within the church has fallen by the waistside in wake of Vatican II. A good report on much of this is Michael Rose's Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption Into the Catholic Church.

    So if you honestly think celibacy is the problem, you're way off.

  6. #26
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Hmm do you happen have any authority you could cite to support your third point. (10 years cooling off or otherwise excommunication). I never heard of this and if it was applicable I seriously doubt it still is.
    It is still applicable, however it's also classified information. The only reason this information even is known at all is because it was used in a court case.

    The documentation itself is in latin so unfortunately I couldn't even provide accurate quotes from it since I don't speak such >.<

    In any case, it's actually relatively recently added.

    And considering it was written by the current pope, I imagine it is very much so still in practice today, and probably shall be until he dies.

    I'd love to give exact quotes on such if I could though. I'll try to do some research to pull it up if at all possible.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    It is still applicable, however it's also classified information. The only reason this information even is known at all is because it was used in a court case.

    The documentation itself is in latin so unfortunately I couldn't even provide accurate quotes from it since I don't speak such >.<

    In any case, it's actually relatively recently added.

    And considering it was written by the current pope, I imagine it is very much so still in practice today, and probably shall be until he dies.

    I'd love to give exact quotes on such if I could though. I'll try to do some research to pull it up if at all possible.
    In other words, you don't have shit to back this up. Thanks for clarifying.

  8. #28
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    It is still applicable, however it's also classified information. The only reason this information even is known at all is because it was used in a court case.
    Playing devils advocate (which you would SO do yourself), the whole concept that the church has X% more peads in it than the population is bogus, even the police can't tell you how many peads are in the population, the best guesses are pretty vauge and usually over estimated....
    (book by Dan Gardner on Risk debunk stats myths on this type of reporting, scratch the surface and you really see how these number are gloriously hiked.)

    Sorry I know it's horribly picky....

  9. #29
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    I'll try to do some research to pull it up if at all possible.
    Thanks, that would be cool to know.

  10. #30
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's basically the heart of the situation. Discipline within the church has fallen by the waistside in wake of Vatican II. A good report on much of this is Michael Rose's Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption Into the Catholic Church.
    I still kinda think on one end sexual repression is part to blame on the other hand I have heard religious scholars set some blame on Vatican II also. The point was that Vatican II occurred during the sexual revolution and this somehow caused confusion on sexually inappropriate behavior and how to address it within the Church.

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