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  1. #51
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Acutally, in many ways it is: defence of property, previous incidence(s) of a similiar nature happening to the attacker (hence, a degree of frustration involved), an intention to stop/apprehend the offender (I didn't make this part clear, apologies), a history of similiar behaviour in the offender, and justification of the act by the public because the offender was 'bad' and 'deserved it'. But mainly this was to demonstrate a slippery slope of killing in defence of property and its moral implications. I meant to look at this from the big picture.
    This is a small picture issue. The legitimacy of the use of force varies by the situation, and the homeowner has no moral/ethical responsibilities to society as a whole.


    I do believe in the right to protect your property. And I am well aware of what it is like to be burgled watching my friends go through it and the crap job the police did in dealing with it.
    Then why the line of questioning?


    But I'm saying, in perspective, can there really be any comparison between one person's right to protect their property and another's right to life. Is the thought of losing your TV really that significant when you consider the strong possibility that you could end up killing someone (or getting yourself killed) in the protection of it? And lets face it the guy went to confront the burgler in the garage (which was away from the house - the house might not have been targeted at all). There was no need to defend himself until he put himself in that position.
    You lose your right to be secure in your person when you attack someone on their property. And yes, the thought of being robbed in my home is enough for me to take appropriate force to end the situation. No doubt about it. I'd do the same if my roommate's room were being burgled, too. They entered my domicile. Period.


    Let me get this straight, if he was attacked and had to kill the guy to stop him, fair enough. I don't agree with his actions but I don't think he should be held accountable. I'm talking about the moral issue here - not just with his actions but the way the public responds. I think incidences like these can have a negative effect on how other people behave in similar circumstances in the future. It can lead to people blatantly disregarding the law to take delusional self-righteous actions.
    That doesn't really matter. And protecting yourself and your possessions is a positive for society. Waiting for the authorities is stupid. Blatantly disregarding the law is, by definition, illegal. If people are retarded and break the law, punish them.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #52
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I see we can't agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Then why the line of questioning?
    Its an INFP thing I think I can support 2 perspectives similtaneously while questioning both.

    Also I find the fanaticism with which some people address such issues (in respect to their individual rights and the brutal, unforgiving attitude to criminals) disturbing. The fact that they do not personally question these actions prompts me to do so. I only want people to take a moment to consider other perspectives rather than rushing to judgement. Its so easy to blame the burgler.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I see we can't agree.

    Its an INFP thing I think I can support 2 perspectives similtaneously while questioning both.

    Also I find the fanaticism with which some people address such issues (in respect to their individual rights and the brutal, unforgiving attitude to criminals) disturbing. The fact that they do not personally question these actions prompts me to do so. I only want people to take a moment to consider other perspectives rather than rushing to judgement. Its so easy to blame the burgler.
    I questioned them, but quickly came to the conclusion that when the burglar makes the decision to trespass, he is also making the decision to give up his rights. There was no rush to judgment, it's just a very straightforward conclusion to reach.

    If there is any perspective that is a "slippery slope", it's yours. It's your perspective that leads to criminals suing the people they robbed if they were injured during the robbery...which I think is one of the most insane things I've ever heard of.

    Burglar pursues suit against doctor who shot him | The Janesville Gazette | Janesville, Wisconsin, USA
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I questioned them, but quickly came to the conclusion that when the burglar makes the decision to trespass, he is also making the decision to give up his rights. There was no rush to judgment, it's just a very straightforward conclusion to reach.

    If there is any perspective that is a "slippery slope", it's yours. It's your perspective that leads to criminals suing the people they robbed if they were injured during the robbery...which I think is one of the most insane things I've ever heard of.

    Burglar pursues suit against doctor who shot him | The Janesville Gazette | Janesville, Wisconsin, USA
    Yeah I've heard about that stuff happening but that's just crazy American laws for you. I can't comment on that because I can't get past how ridiculous it is that a justice system allows that to happen.

  5. #55
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Yeah I've heard about that stuff happening but that's just crazy American laws for you. I can't comment on that because I can't get past how ridiculous it is that a justice system allows that to happen.
    x2. This kind of stuff (burgulars suing, etc.) is not normal in other countries.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #56
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    I could see myself doing the same thing in his situation. Imagine, grabbing a sword as a means of protection when you hear what could be a burglar in your garage. Now, imagine being confronted with an actual burglar, who then allegedly lunges at you. I would hack and slash to protect myself, for sure. I definitely wouldn't be thinking, "I could get in trouble for defending myself without thinking first. There are four of us, why don't we make an attempt to pin the guy. So what if he maybe bites one of us and gives us herpes or AIDs along the way."

    Moral of the story, don't break into someone's home.

    F.Y.I. - I have prepared myself for the possiblity of a home invasion, you should too!
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  7. #57
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I see we can't agree.
    Perhaps not. You're arguing in direct conflict to centuries of case law and legislation.


    Its an INFP thing I think I can support 2 perspectives similtaneously while questioning both.

    Also I find the fanaticism with which some people address such issues (in respect to their individual rights and the brutal, unforgiving attitude to criminals) disturbing. The fact that they do not personally question these actions prompts me to do so. I only want people to take a moment to consider other perspectives rather than rushing to judgement. Its so easy to blame the burgler.
    I find it disturbing that someone would suggest that it's "fanaticism" to argue that one's individual rights should take a backseat to those of someone in the process of committing a felony. Private property is one of the backbones of free societies.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #58
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Perhaps not. You're arguing in direct conflict to centuries of case law and legislation.




    I find it disturbing that someone would suggest that it's "fanaticism" to argue that one's individual rights should take a backseat to those of someone in the process of committing a felony. Private property is one of the backbones of free societies.
    Do you mean "one's individual rights should not take a backseat"?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #59
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Do you mean "one's individual rights should not take a backseat"?
    Probably. I just woke up.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #60
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Ok, there was a student stabbed to death trying to stop a burglar in his frat house when I was an undergrad there. In Baltimore, it's kill or be killed. Kudos to Samurai!

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

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