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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    If you are trying to make a case for hating people, then that is your right. You are allowed to hate anyone you want. If you are trying to make a case that all black people are the same because you had a bad experience with some and don't like how some of them act, then that is your burden. I learned long ago that I can't change anyone's mind.

    Either way, as long as you keep it to yourself and don't drag others into it, then it really isn't anyone's issue but your own. I feel sorry for you because you are limited in what you can experience since you have given into hate. I just find it sad that even though you are clearly intelligent enough to objectively challenge those views, you have decided to rationalize them instead. But we all deal with our own trauma in our own ways. You were hurt by some people in the past and you found a way to justify it. You decided that black people are bad. I hope some day you can overcome those perceptions and find peace with the past so that you can enjoy people for who they are and not for what you see them as.
    Exactly!
    There's a type of person of almost all races, religions, sexual preferences, genders, etc. that get on my nerves.
    For one thing, white trash meth-heads drive me up a wall. I had some of them break into my car once and they're always blowing up some seedy motel and having screaming arguments (or worse running the vacuum cleaner at 3 am). Should I therefore hate all white people based on the experiences I've had with a few bad eggs? Of course not. Truthfully, I've had more bad experiences with white people than any other type. Because I'm white I've had more experiences with that group than most others. And I've had plenty of experiences with people of all ethnicities.
    Uberfuhrer, your using the reasoning that some of them did something shitty and you don't like how a lot of them act to judge an entire race. Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It sounds like you're trying to find reasons to justify and explain an irrational prejudice you already held, which is arguing backwards.
    Which is ok. You're free to believe that some races are inferior to others or that the world is flat or that space men visited you in the night to take samples of your nose hairs. You could argue a dislike for black people from the same stance that I argue for disliking escargot or puce. Irrational and arbitrary personal preference. Like Kiddo said, I don't expect to be able to change your mind. It's your problem, not mine.
    But I will say that being prejudice against prejudice makes more sense than being prejudice against an ethnicity. Being prejudiced against bigotry is like being prejudiced against emo kids. If a person is a bigot (or an emo kid) then it's likely that I won't agree with their ideals, have much in common with them, or be particularly impressed with their intelligence and education (ok, emo kids are usually pretty well-read for their ages). Whereas a person's skin color is no indication (whether you want to believe it or not) of their ideals, intelligence, education... or anything else internal. It is, however an indication of their ancestry. No different from eye color or last name.
    Also, the difference between my prejudice against emo kids and most bigots, is that I won't insult an emo kid, threaten his family, deny him a job he's qualified for simply because he's an emo kid, or burn heartagrams on his lawn. I'm just probably not gonna end up being good friends with him.
    Hopefully, your prejudice against certain races is like my prejudice against emo kids.
    Anyway, I refrained from posting on this thread for a long time because I didn't want to get all embattled with someone again. You are entitled to your preferences and opinions whether I agree with them or not. I am stating why I don't agree with yours. You are not required to agree with mine. That is all.

  2. #62
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    Isn't stereotyping basically what the scientific method does, too? It takes a few people for an experiment and automatically attributes it towards the whole human race.

    If one or two black persons act a certain way, I probably wouldn't think of it very much, but when most of the ones I've come into contact with (and I do have ample experience) act the exact same way, do you honestly think anyone should waste their time with them?

    What I'm doing is using my N, actually. Making generalizations based on sweeping patterns. So sue me if this is all part of my personality.

    (And if it's my company, I can hire whoever the hell I want.)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Isn't stereotyping basically what the scientific method does, too? It takes a few people for an experiment and automatically attributes it towards the whole human race.

    If one or two black persons act a certain way, I probably wouldn't think of it very much, but when most of the ones I've come into contact with (and I do have ample experience) act the exact same way, do you honestly think anyone should waste their time with them?

    What I'm doing is using my N, actually. Making generalizations based on sweeping patterns. So sue me if this is all part of my personality.

    (And if it's my company, I can hire whoever the hell I want.)
    LOL! Ok, let's conduct this like a scientific social study.

    First step, we need to state our null hypothesis. You see, real scientists don't look for evidence to support their beliefs, they instead wisely choose to begin with the statement that there is no change or difference so that they don't let their preconceptions bias the study and also so they can account for data that they might not foresee. So let's say that our null hypothesis is that "American black individuals are behaviorally no different than American white individuals."

    Now we need to gather data from a demonstrative sample. So if we are talking about all black Americans, roughly 40 million people, we need a sample size of roughly 2 or 3 thousand people to even begin to draw any inferences. How many black people have you known personally? 10? 50? 100? Then we also need a similar sample of white people to compare it.

    Finally we need to set up a controlled study or survey. Sadly, we can't use crime statistics since they are unrelated to population distribution (but wouldn't that be nice if we could? ) So how does one go about objectively determining how "dangerous" an individual is? A personality test used to measure aggressiveness? An experiment used to demonstrate human interaction? Well whatever we choose, the real scientist would wisely choose to separate themselves as much from the study as they possibly could so they wouldn't bias it and randomize the sample so that they didn't know who was black and who was white when they were processing the data.

    Also a real scientist would need to account for possible confounding variables, such as level of education and background, so that the study was only indicative of behavior differences based solely on skin color. To do this, the samples would have to be broken down into comparable groups.

    So we finally get to the numbers of our data and find that blacks showed 4.999999% more difference in behavior than whites. Is that enough information to reject our null hypothesis and thus say that there is evidence supporting an alternative hypothesis? Nope. First off, a real scientist wouldn't settle for any less than 5% to reject a null hypothesis because that is the universally excepted amount when talking about populations that accounts for random chance. Also, we don't know exactly what that difference entails. It could mean that black individuals are less aggressive and dangerous than white people. So we need to conduct T tests to determine how much the behavior difference is accounted for on each side of the distribution.

    Basically the point I am making is don't hash out or try to justify your prejudice with science. There have been studies conducted similar to the one I mentioned above, and there has never been any evidence to support that blacks are any more or less aggressive than whites. Rather, level of education and past experience have a much more profound effect on an individual's behavior. Which is widely why affirmative action and other such racial actions are taken as a means of correcting social injustice as a result of racism in this country.

    But I don't really care if you believe any of this or not. I just don't want you associating your views with real social science.

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    Science has become less factual and more PC over the years, which is why I am skeptical of even that. The only thing I can trust are my own conceptions. I have concluded that everything yet nothing in the world makes sense at the same time.

    And anyone who relies on other friends or even science for answers obviously doesn't pay attention to his own thoughts or beliefs.

    If that isn't intellectual laziness, then I don't know what is.

    When all is said and done, certain people are just not worth anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Science has become less factual and more PC over the years, which is why I am skeptical of even that. The only thing I can trust are my own conceptions. I have concluded that everything yet nothing in the world makes sense at the same time.

    And anyone who relies on other friends or even science for answers obviously doesn't pay attention to his own thoughts or beliefs.

    If that isn't intellectual laziness, then I don't know what is.

    When all is said and done, certain people are just not worth anything.
    You should talk to wildcat. She has the right idea. There aren't any answers, only questions. And once we stop asking them we lose our humanity. If all you can trust is yourself, then that is all you will ever have. In your own world, you can never be wrong when you believe only what you want to believe. But right and wrong are practically meaningless in a world of infinite possibilities and perspectives. That is the world I choose to live in and embrace, and it may seem senseless to you, but the connection I feel growing everyday with this world provides me with my sustenance for life. I don't know why you have created such a personal hell for yourself, but I hope one day you can accept your humanity and find your own way.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    You should talk to wildcat. She has the right idea. There aren't any answers, only questions. And once we stop asking them we lose our humanity. If all you can trust is yourself, then that is all you will ever have. In your own world, you can never be wrong when you believe only what you want to believe. But right and wrong are practically meaningless in a world of infinite possibilities and perspectives. That is the world I choose to live in and embrace, and it may seem senseless to you, but the connection I feel growing everyday with this world provides me with my sustenance for life. I don't know why you have created such a personal hell for yourself, but I hope one day you can accept your humanity and find your own way.
    You do know that it's going to end one day, right? And all that you have learned will be meaningless.

    And what is it with this humanity nonsense? For all we know, there is no such thing. We're just another animal. Kindness is irrational. And you must admit, people who are ignorant are more content and happy. Education, on the other hand, teaches us to be more anal-retentive. (It doesn't even teach us the facts.)

    As far as I'm concerned, people with no pride in themselves are better off killing themselves. If they don't kill themselves, then perhaps one day I'll be in the position to do the killing for them.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    You do know that it's going to end one day, right? And all that you have learned will be meaningless.

    And what is it with this humanity nonsense? For all we know, there is no such thing. We're just another animal. Kindness is irrational. And you must admit, people who are ignorant are more content and happy. Education, on the other hand, teaches us to be more anal-retentive. (It doesn't even teach us the facts.)

    As far as I'm concerned, people with no pride in themselves are better off killing themselves. If they don't kill themselves, then perhaps one day I'll be in the position to do the killing for them.
    I guess it depends on whether you see the purpose of a journey as "what you do on the way", or just "getting to the destination". We all end up just the same; dead. So I prefer to enjoy the sights on the way. And I've never really believed in meaning anyways, since it ultimately comes down to what you want to believe.

    And this, "for all we know" junk suggests that there may be an ultimate truth. Whether or not there is one is out of my control, so I don't really see any sense in worrying about it. I just go about my life trying to understand human beings and the rest of world as best as I can if for no other reason than I want to. As far as whether people who are more ignorant are happier is a subjective argument. The argument has also been made that no man would trade his life for that of a dog's life, even for a full share of the dog's pleasures. And unless someone is mentally ill or impaired, I agree.

    And really, where does all this killing sentiment come from? You have so little value for human life that you put something as superficial as pride over it? I think everyone has value, whether or not they can see if for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    And really, where does all this killing sentiment come from? You have so little value for human life that you put something as superficial as pride over it? I think everyone has value, whether or not they can see if for themselves.
    Why not? People are shallow and mindless anyway (except for me of course), and this is something I've been trying to get through people's heads for, like, forever. People are only valuable if you can extract use from them, and that's a rarity. So yes, people are ultimately without value.

    And better yet, people who are without pride make the perfect basket cases.

    Life is without objective meaning, that much is clear. But unless people are useful to me in someway, life is also without subjective meaning.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Why not? People are shallow and mindless anyway (except for me of course), and this is something I've been trying to get through people's heads for, like, forever. People are only valuable if you can extract use from them, and that's a rarity. So yes, people are ultimately without value.

    And better yet, people who are without pride make the perfect basket cases.

    Life is without objective meaning, that much is clear. But unless people are useful to me in someway, life is also without subjective meaning.
    Now you are narcissistic? I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that you actually believe any of that overgeneralized spew you are dishing out. But since you seem to want to play this game, I'll humor you.

    Seeing people as tools is very limiting. They are fellow living, feeling, and thinking creatures. That alone gives them insurmountable value. Why? Because they exist and that alone is a miracle unto itself.

  10. #70
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    yes, humans are interesting, they'd be more so if they were nicer to each other!
    I think that our practice of objectifying people is rather horrible- especially if the person you're treating unfairly is in a position where they have some means with which to get revenge against you. For instance, always be nice to the cashier- do not hit on her, do not bitch at her and do not make comments about her chest- she will find some way in which to make your shopping experience less pleasant. The same applies to the rest of those out there with the shit job of serving you- we're all people too!

    If you're self centered enough to find yourself special just remember that there's someone else out there who finds you just as dispensable as you find them!

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