User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 76

  1. #11
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I just can't see how discrimination allows for growth, rather it seems to be quite the opposite, a childish and immature way of perceiving the world because we are too afraid to challenge our own perceptions.
    It's a genetic/biological imperative - constrained resources forces groups to form the minimum size required for survival - to expand, more resources are required... but then the group requires pruning and sub division occurs. It happens to all animals. Some have hardwired pack sizes, some are a bit more flexible, like humans. The warfare between groups ("the other") is built deep into us. Society simply conditions us as to who the "other" is.

    Simply put, we have a need to clan up. It's a deep rooted survival and genetic parsing tool.

    That is, of course, just why. The key part in that is "minimum size for survival" - what happens when one dominates? Well, it take over the planet... constrained without less and less pruning, less and less environmental pressure. But the base animal instincts continue.

    No one is exempt. We only repress it... and some people haven't been conditioned to repress it. In short, racism is the norm.

    It doesn't mean it's good, however, or effective in the current world. But that's why it happens.

    (edit: just to be clear, this is more my opinion than fact )

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Discrimination and associated ethnocentric behaviour could be said to stem from a mental shortcut - a heuristics approach to evaluating individuals and behaviour. Mostly I'd say it's just a lazy mind, since it is more or less replacing thought with gut reaction to differences.
    No, it stems from general cognitive mechanisms that we use to make sense of the world around us. It's not a "lazy" mind, that's just making a value judgment where there isn't any to be made. It's just the way we work. If it wasn't for that, we would be overwhelmed by the amount of individual information to process. Resorting to using social categories is a simple case of efficiency. It's not replacing it with gut reaction. It's just being dealt by automatic processes, and these may or may not be associated to a gut reaction.

    The amazing thing about this is that it really doesn't matter how open you are. The training - the priming, if you will - is very very deep and almost without exception.
    Association/conditionning, not priming. Don't confuse the terms.

    As far as laws go, they are a concious act to reduce the ramification of priming. As laws are added, social transformation does occur and it does reduce the training and priming. In short, it works. But it isn't an absolute. Until the individual that make up the whole identify with a new concept the old one remains, carried from generation to generation. In the case of the US, it'll be, in theory, the transformation between "individualism" and "all men are equal". Right now it is individualism as an excuse for racism - the equal part is subject to the individualistic reaction (I'll think and say what I want) and the implied individual response (arrogance: I am better than others).
    That's wrong. If anything, seeing yourself as more of an individual than a member of a group and treating others as individuals actually reduces prejudice and discrimination. It brings you to attend to specific features of a person rather than the category to which s/he belongs.

    The problem in the US is how strong people identify with being American. Many Americans are more proud of their country than people from other countries are proud of theirs. Also, standards of political correctness may actually contribute to increasing prejudice towards other groups, as this creates a stronger seperation between private and public opinion.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    And what is with the snobbish and elitist attitudes on these kids?
    Actually, the most disturbing form of racism I have noticed was in a police officer who hated blacks with a passion. He's sort of your typical white male who only graduated from high school, very inarticulate and couldn't string two sentences together coherently; does not have a cool head and lacks all diplomacy skills. He spends most of his time surfing porn on the internet when he's supposed to be working on his cases. He's competitive with other men, especially those whom he feels inferior to and more highly educated than he is. I shudder to think what the world would be like if idiots like him ruled the actual world.

    That said, I think most officers- who are actually conscientious and have a sense of compassion and morals are very good at what they do, but this idiot is an example of why the system is looked down upon by the majority of the people.

  4. #14
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,698

    Default

    Racism/bigotry etc isn't always primarily about hate. It can also be a refuge for the insignificant - like genealogy and patriotism (and personality type?). It makes a virtue of what you were born with, rather than what you have achieved. The sense of significance and comfort offered by these things isn't primarily derived from their inherent value, but rather from their superiority to alternatives.

  5. #15
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I now feel conflicted...

    On one hand I believe in the concept of "Judge not that ye be not judged," where since no man is perfect, no one has the right to condemn another man for their imperfections. So part of me thinks I should be tolerating the bigots of the world. (After all, its only wise to treat others as you wish to be treated, thereby teaching tolerance by example.)

    On the other hand I believe that we should not tolerate another person doing something that can cause harm to another. So part of me thinks I shouldn't tolerate the bigots of the world because their attitudes and choices can cause great harm.

    This feels quite ironically like a P/J conflict. A P would probably say that no one has the right to judge an individual for the way they think, while the J would probably say that if that thinking causes harm to others then an individual should not be sharing or acting on those thoughts.
    Prejudice is quite clearly an N trait, actually, because it's turning a specific incident into a sweeping pattern. People who are prejudice also have good instincts -- yet another N trait. My conclusion is that the NJ traits combined make a person more likely to have strong prejudice. (With NFJs being foolishly ashamed to admit their prejudice.)

  6. #16
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    My conclusion is that the NJ traits combined make a person more likely to have strong prejudice. (With NFJs being foolishly ashamed to admit their prejudice.)
    Really? Is it so foolish, considering that we want to be accepted by as many people as possible, and that there's a prejudice in our society against people who exhibit prejudice?

    It's only foolish from the perspective of someone who thinks honesty and a goal-orientation is paramount. That's why xxTJ's are more likely to show prejudices... though all types may actually have them.

    I'm kind to people because that's how I would want to be treated, and I think it's how people should be treated. Whether I actually like the people in question is irrelevant. Who I actually like or don't like isn't as important as how I treat them, and the example I set for others.

  7. #17
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    And for the record, discriminatory behavior is one of the major characteristics of intelligence.

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    And for the record, discriminatory behavior is one of the major characteristics of intelligence.
    Discriminatory behavior is a sign of intelligence, racial prejudice is a sign of being uneducated and ignorant.

  9. #19
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    Discriminatory behavior is a sign of intelligence, racial prejudice is a sign of being uneducated and ignorant.
    Racial prejudice being uneducated and ignorant? How is it that people come up with this?

    School teaches you concepts, it does not teach you to like people of other races.

    When all is said and done, education is for people who are too lazy and too stupid to think for themselves.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    508

    Default

    Though I prefer to avoid having racial prejudices myself, I have to agree that racism has biological roots. Every group sharing some concrete characteristics, be them blood type, skin colouration, skeletal structure, etc., has passed through long processes of evolution in order to adapt in their environment and develop the most adequate mechanisms for survival and maintenance of species. Racist prejudices have served, in my opinion, as an attempt of rationalisation of some basic survival instincts.
    However, I think that survival is far more easy and established now and these mechanisms are of little or no use anymore.

Similar Threads

  1. Pride and Prejudice Character Types
    By celesul in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 09-23-2017, 02:01 AM
  2. Racism and MBTI
    By Mole in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-04-2012, 10:36 PM
  3. Nepotism, Classism, Racism and how family ties determine where we go in life
    By DiscoBiscuit in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 04-27-2012, 05:03 PM
  4. Globalisation and Internalised Racism?
    By The_World_As_Will in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-07-2011, 08:30 PM
  5. Avatar causing depression and inciting racism?
    By ProperDave in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 01-19-2010, 10:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO