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  1. #21
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Even if it does deter, most Death Penalty opponents come from a human rights and moral direction, so any kind of utilitarian argument isn't going to matter to them. It just seems logical to me that if the cost of an action is higher, that behavior will be more deterred. And while AJ's data says otherwise, I agree with Lucrative's idea that states with the death penalty may have more problems with homicide, so they take extreme measures, and it would be interesting to see how homicide rates would change if say, Texas revoked the death penalty.

    Statistics is just one of those things that I do not think is THAT well equipped to deal with complex sociological issues, or any chaotic/complex system for that matter. It can be helpful, but they're also prone to misinterpretation and cherry picking from both sides of the argument.



  2. #22
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Even if it does deter, most Death Penalty opponents come from a human rights and moral direction, so any kind of utilitarian argument isn't going to matter to them.
    Don't forget the economic direction. The death penalty costs more than life in prison.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    It just seems logical to me that if the cost of an action is higher, that behavior will be more deterred.
    When someone is murdering someone, I don't think the nuances between the threat of lifelong imprisonment compared to eventual execution are playing out in their heads.

    I think that's what it comes down to.

  3. #23
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Don't forget the economic direction. The death penalty costs more than life in prison.
    Yes, however the costs are different. It costs the state too much in court time and appeals and legal fees than to just keep the person alive for another 50 years. People forget or do not realize how much court time is used in regards to death row procedure.

    When someone is murdering someone, I don't think the nuances between the threat of lifelong imprisonment compared to eventual execution are playing out in their heads.

    I think that's what it comes down to.
    This is true too. Actually, I'd argue death row is more attractive than life in prison, but that's just me.



  4. #24
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    This is true too. Actually, I'd argue death row is more attractive than life in prison, but that's just me.
    Same.

  5. #25
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I didn't know that the death penalty cost more than life imprisonment, or does that depend on the method of execution? Not coming from a country that supports it, I don't know the ins and outs, however it seems a waste of tax payers money to support the death penality over life imprisonment, if this is indeed the case, and I'm surprise people still support it.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  6. #26
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    I read jock's post, don't answer my first post.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  7. #27
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Simply put, the conclusion it draws is that over that last 20 years, the death penalty hasn't been shown to lower murder rates. No casual relationship is evident.

    I'd be interested in data that suggests otherwise though.
    Whether that's true or not, what you posted really doesn't say that. If the states with the death penalty had a 200% higher murder rate before, then implemented the death penalty (over 20 years ago) and drastically reduced their rates, the graphs could conceivably still look the same.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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