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  1. #81
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I wasn't saying the above about libertarians, my concern was about the deregulation that allowed the fraud to occur in the first place.

    How do libertarians feel about anti-trust legislation?
    It varies. The hardcores and Austrian economists tend to hate it. Others tend to think it could be OK, but it's used in an unfair way. I don't think Microsoft should have been harried as much as they were. Personally, I like competition. However, if one firm naturally (i.e., without significant government regulation raising the barriers of entry to the industry) becomes the dominant firm in their industry, I wouldn't step in unless they began to do things like charge a monopoly price . Just being dominant is not enough. The government setting a maximum price for local utilities is fine by me, although I like to see competition there when possible. My home state of Pennsylvania allows people to choose between several companies who generate the electricity, then their local utility transmits it. It's nice for people who are environmentally-minded, since they can pay to have their electricity generated by companies like Green Mountain Energy. I believe that they only use wind and solar.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #82
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Here is a great example of a targeted, specific, and detailed argument by a prominent libertarian against the Obama Administration. This is no wackjob; this is a principled and informed person who is calling our executive branch to task.


    THE REAL REASON AMERICANS ARE ANGRY - New York Post
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #83
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It varies. The hardcores and Austrian economists tend to hate it. Others tend to think it could be OK, but it's used in an unfair way. I don't think Microsoft should have been harried as much as they were. Personally, I like competition. However, if one firm naturally (i.e., without significant government regulation raising the barriers of entry to the industry) becomes the dominant firm in their industry, I wouldn't step in unless they began to do things like charge a monopoly price . Just being dominant is not enough. The government setting a maximum price for local utilities is fine by me, although I like to see competition there when possible. My home state of Pennsylvania allows people to choose between several companies who generate the electricity, then their local utility transmits it. It's nice for people who are environmentally-minded, since they can pay to have their electricity generated by companies like Green Mountain Energy. I believe that they only use wind and solar.
    Ah, you're pretty lucky. In Northwest Indiana, the only way we can get gas/heat/electricity is through NIPSCO, so they can charge pretty much what they want since there is no competition in the area.
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    -----------------
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  4. #84
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    And this is why I will never be a libertarian. You have heard of Enron, right?
    Enron wouldn't have existed in such a form without massive government support in the first place. Choose a better example...

    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    How do libertarians feel about anti-trust legislation?
    In a 'libertarian' state, or USA in its current state?

    The same goes for issues like immigration - restrictions are necessary for anything remotely resembling a welfare state. Such thoughts are not dictated by ideology, but reality.

  5. #85
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Ah, you're pretty lucky. In Northwest Indiana, the only way we can get gas/heat/electricity is through NIPSCO, so they can charge pretty much what they want since there is no competition in the area.
    However, if Indiana is like most other states there is a state utilities board that regulates the power company, including setting their prices.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Here is a great example of a targeted, specific, and detailed argument by a prominent libertarian against the Obama Administration. This is no wackjob; this is a principled and informed person who is calling our executive branch to task.


    THE REAL REASON AMERICANS ARE ANGRY - New York Post
    Guess he changed his mind from when he wrote a book slamming McCain right before the '08 election. Amazon.com: McCain: The Myth of a Maverick (9780230608054): Matt Welch: Books

    "Author Matt Welch provides a warning that if John McCain becomes the next President of the United States we as a nation may well have jumped from the frying pan into the fire."

    New York Post? I didn't know anyone actually read that rag except sports fans and Joe the plumber.


    From the Post article:

    Top 10 Obama Government Grabs
    1. The Stimulus ($787 billion)
    Making government the nation's largest employer.

    I wonder if so called libertarians had any issue with the 3 trillion Iraq war? Doubtful, since most libertarians are really just embarrassed former Republicans.

  7. #87
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    Guess he changed his mind from when he wrote a book slamming McCain right before the '08 election. Amazon.com: McCain: The Myth of a Maverick (9780230608054): Matt Welch: Books

    "Author Matt Welch provides a warning that if John McCain becomes the next President of the United States we as a nation may well have jumped from the frying pan into the fire."

    New York Post? I didn't know anyone actually read that rag except sports fans and Joe the plumber.
    In which fashion did Welch change his mind? I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.


    From the Post article:

    Top 10 Obama Government Grabs
    1. The Stimulus ($787 billion)
    Making government the nation's largest employer.

    I wonder if so called libertarians had any issue with the 3 trillion Iraq war? Doubtful, since most libertarians are really just embarrassed former Republicans.
    Reason magazine writers were almost 100% against the Iraq War. You are completely misinformed. And libertarians hate the majority of Republicans we have in power, especially at the federal level. Swing and a miss.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    In which fashion did Welch change his mind? I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
    You said he was against the Obama administration, which is odd for someone who recommended you should vote against McCain, and therefore supported Obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Here is a great example of a targeted, specific, and detailed argument by a prominent libertarian against the Obama Administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Reason magazine writers were almost 100% against the Iraq War. You are completely misinformed. And libertarians hate the majority of Republicans we have in power, especially at the federal level. Swing and a miss.
    I said most libertarians, NOT reason magazine (what does one magazine have to do with anything?).

    Many libertarians today, are indeed former republicans, who are embarrassed at any association to Bush. In fact, many of them aren't even real libertarians (which I consider myself).

    I constantly see self-proclaimed libertarians say they voted for McCain (or would have over Obama) - which just shows they have no idea what libertarianism really is.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    You said he was against the Obama administration, which is odd for someone who recommended you should vote against McCain, and therefore supported Obama.
    I said it was a takedown of what Obama has been doing. Surely, someone can dislike John McCain AND Barack Obama. I do it every day.


    I said most libertarians, NOT reason magazine (what does one magazine have to do with anything?).

    Completely misinformed? Nice straw man argument. Many libertarians today, are indeed former republicans, who are embarrassed at any association to Bush.
    Provide some evidence for this (baseless) claim.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #90
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Also, Welch here claims to be supporting Bob Barr in the 2008 Election. I would imagine he'd have voted for Obama if he had lived in a swing state (because he has hated John McCain for years), but he lives in Washington, D.C., so he knew it was going to be an Obama landslide.


    Who's Getting Your Vote?: reason's 2008 presidential poll - Reason Magazine
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