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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Err... We can debate about the industrial revolution all we want, but as a backdrop to that, I don't see the point, as I hardly think libetarianism can be given credit for it.

    Libertarianism is the political philosophy that values free markets, free trade, less regulation, and so on. These elements are what enable things like the Industrial Revolution and the more recent revolution in agriculture to happen. Just think how much richer the world would be if crops were less subsidized than they are now. Especially Third World nations.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #62
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I think the most energetic industrialization processes in history were at the hands of totalitarians, so I don't see the relation to non-regulation and free market principles.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think the most energetic industrialization processes in history were at the hands of totalitarians, so I don't see the relation to non-regulation and free market principles.

    Really? Does "most energetic" equal "most successful" in your eyes? Stalin was energetic, but that didn't turn out too well.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Really? Does "most energetic" equal "most successful" in your eyes? Stalin was energetic, but that didn't turn out too well.
    Well, actually, in Stalin's case, I'd ask, compared to what? Certainly Stalin could have done things better, much better, but the place he created was actually better to live in than the place that existed before him. This is all mainly thanks to industrialization.

    And that being said, industry is not very mercurial. To my knowledge, no country has ever been industrialized by a totalitarian regime, and then suddenly de-industrialized when that regime was gone.

    If someone came to me and said "I want to industrialize as much as possible as fast as possible, and I want industry to remain" I'd tell them to go with fascism.

    I wouldn't want to live in Stalin's USSR, but then I wouldn't want to live in Nicholas II's Russia. I think I'd rather go with Stalin. The problem for me, though, as that I'm not very impressed by growth, and so-called economic prosperity on their own... regardless of whether or not they are coming from fascists or libertarians.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, actually, in Stalin's case, I'd ask, compared to what? Certainly Stalin could have done things better, much better, but the place he created was actually better to live in than the place that existed before him. This is all mainly thanks to industrialization.

    And that being said, industry is not very mercurial. To my knowledge, no country has ever been industrialized by a totalitarian regime, and then suddenly de-industrialized when that regime was gone.

    If someone came to me and said "I want to industrialize as much as possible as fast as possible, and I want industry to remain" I'd tell them to go with fascism.

    I wouldn't want to live in Stalin's USSR, but then I wouldn't want to live in Nicholas II's Russia. I think I'd rather go with Stalin. The problem for me, though, as that I'm not very impressed by growth, and so-called economic prosperity on their own... regardless of whether or not they are coming from fascists or libertarians.

    These statements really make me shake my head. Stalin was an unmitigated disaster. I can barely comprehend the value system and judgment that would believe that.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #66
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    These statements really make me shake my head. Stalin was an unmitigated disaster. I can barely comprehend the value system and judgment that would believe that.
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew you were going to say something like that.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew you were going to say something like that.

    So why would you say something so mind-bogglingly silly?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    So why would you say something so mind-bogglingly silly?
    Compared to pre-Revolutionary Russia, Stalin's Soviet Union was a utopia. Even the GULAG wasn't that much of a strike against him - the Tsar just had his political opponents shot upon apprehension.

    Russia has been a nasty, brutish place for centuries. The Commies actually reversed that for the most part. As he mentioned, though, that was mostly a side effect of industrialization than it was any great advance of communism.

  9. #69
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    So why would you say something so mind-bogglingly silly?
    Do you think I am going to rate my commentary based on whether or not you'd incredulously disagree with me? Just because I knew you'd say that doesn't mean I was wrong...

    If he/she so feels like it, onemoretime can take it from here.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Do you think I am going to rate my commentary based on whether or not you'd incredulously disagree with me? Just because I knew you'd say that doesn't mean I was wrong...

    If he/she so feels like it, onemoretime can take it from here.
    Too boring.

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