User Tag List

First 132122232425 Last

Results 221 to 230 of 257

  1. #221
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I bet it pisses you off that people haven't found a way to privately own swaths of breathable air yet.

    You guys are so over the top.
    I should clarify.

    I understand that some public property must exist, because the government must have some infrastructure, and because for people to live in community there must be some property to which all have equal access. Even in Jefferson's day there were public roads, a village commons, and buildings in which the legislatures would meet.

    I personally believe, however, that public property (read: government property) should not be allowed to extend beyond a reasonable minimum required to facilitate the legitimate functions of government. There should be a state house, a courthouse, public roads, armories, jails.

    But there shouldn't be much more than that, because the support of an overly large public-property infrastructure represents an unreasonable burden on the citizenry, whether they know it or not.

    ...lolbertarians and libtards... what a combination...

  2. #222
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I should clarify.

    I understand that some public property must exist, because the government must have some infrastructure, and because for people to live in community there must be some property to which all have equal access. Even in Jefferson's day there were public roads, a village commons, and buildings in which the legislatures would meet.

    I personally believe, however, that public property (read: government property) should not be allowed to extend beyond a reasonable minimum required to facilitate the legitimate functions of government. There should be a state house, a courthouse, public roads, armories, jails.

    But there shouldn't be much more than that, because the support of an overly large public-property infrastructure represents an unreasonable burden on the citizenry, whether they know it or not.

    ...lolbertarians and libtards... what a combination...
    Unfortunately that "reasonable minimum" of "legitimate functions of government" is quite up to debate.

    What strikes me as disingenuous about the Libertarian position, especially, is the repeated insistence that their philosophy is idealistically different and not simply a different spot on the same line of arbitrary decisions.

    Total anarchy is idealistically different--Libertarianism isn't actually opposed to government taking your money for its own ends; it just places the arbitrary line at which that should stop at a different place than everybody else.

    Yet Libertarians still paint themselves as the "unique" party that "truly respects your freedom"--I don't buy it. They don't do away with the line; they just draw the same arbitrary line a little further to the right.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #223
    Oberon
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Unfortunately that "reasonable minimum" of "legitimate functions of government" is quite up to debate.

    What strikes me as disingenuous about the Libertarian position, especially, is the repeated insistence that their philosophy is idealistically different and not simply a different spot on the same line of arbitrary decisions.

    Total anarchy is idealistically different--Libertarianism isn't actually opposed to government taking your money for its own ends; it just places the arbitrary line at which that should stop at a different place than everybody else.

    Yet Libertarians still paint themselves as the "unique" party that "truly respects your freedom"--I don't buy it. They don't do away with the line; they just draw the same arbitrary line a little further to the right.
    I'm not much interested in doctrinaire Libertarianism. When I speak on politics, I'm giving you my personal perspective.

    That said, I think the differences between truly different parties lie in their priorities. If you were to make a list of worthwhile goals, broadly defined as desirable in a society, it might look something like this:

    • Security
    • Food
    • Shelter
    • Medicine
    • Freedom
    • Comfort
    • Community
    • Liesure


    A society (or a nation-state) can be structured to provide access to some or all of these things, or practice non-interference to allow individuals and groups to pursue these things, or it can limit or deny access to some or all of these things, all as a matter of policy.

    The difference between parties is mostly in how you prioritize the list.

  4. #224
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Interesting; in what order do you personally place these priorities?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #225
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INFj
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Posts
    428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    indeed, if you were to send your son away for the better part of his childhood, which type of person would you want to see when he turns 18: the type who can generate wealth, create jobs, provide comfortable lives for his family and for his aging parents or would you want an average, run-of-the-mill boy working a dead end 9-5 job, who has trouble making ends meet and occasionally needs to borrow money from his retired parents?

    it's not that the poor/middle-class are bad influences, it's that upper-class are better influences (all else being equal).
    ^WOW! What an incredibly condescending thing to say about "poor/middle class" individuals who work those "dead end 9-5" jobs.

    Do you look down on everyone that provides services?, because that sector of labor continues to go up while other sectors (manufacturing) are farmed out overseas, making it more and more difficult to find full-time work with benefits.

    You certainly seem to have some beef with those lowly middle class people who do WORK for a living.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  6. #226
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    you obviously missed the part of the argument that stated all things being equal. what this means is, a good and moral person who is successful in their field would be a better influence than a good and moral person who is a complete failure.

    although, with your complete bias against successful people i imagine it's difficult for you see wealth as anything but the manifestation of evil.

    and so, while you snicker and sneer at all the people "exploiting" the poor with gainful employment, i'm going to be working to provide my family with a better life than i had.
    I don't have a bias against successful people. I admire some successful people, although because I don't see the world in black and white like a child, I actually admire people based upon what went into making them successful not just the bare fact that they have gazillions of dollars OMGZ.

    I'm gainfully employed. I've worked since I was a teenager. I'm also a college student with a 3.9 GPA, so in some regards, compared to some people, I am a "successful person" ...or at least will be someday.

    Exploiting the poor with gainful employment? Your bizarre black and white statements bore me. Did this stuff work with your history professor? I imagine not.

  7. #227
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    ^WOW! What an incredibly condescending thing to say about "poor/middle class" individuals who work those "dead end 9-5" jobs.

    Do you look down on everyone that provides services?, because that sector of labor continues to go up while other sectors (manufacturing) are farmed out overseas, making it more and more difficult to find full-time work with benefits.

    You certainly seem to have some beef with those lowly middle class people who do WORK for a living.
    It's not just condecending. It's a ridiculous, easily debunkable false argument.

    It's bad enough when someone who is actually right is condenscending. When someone is just making silly, misinformed statements and combines it with condescension, it's an Intertardz travesty.

  8. #228
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    it's no secret and certainly not imaginary that some posters in this forum are unwilling to admit any good can come of self-interest, capitalism, large corporations and the like.

    and, it wasn't until i gained some perspective of my own (i.e. living on my own, paying taxes, paying my own rent, running my own business, etc.) that i came to appreciate the above.

    now, i can't pretend to understand the background of said posters, but i can gain an understanding of their motivating principles after reading enough of their responses.
    Dear Friend:

    I have been living on my own (aside from a year and a half when I returned to my mother's house when I began college, yet continued to work and help pay bills since my family is working class) since I was 18. I've not only been paying taxes, but I've actually been doing my own taxes since I was in high school.

    You know nothing of my motivating principles. And I certainly don't understand yours, unless they're to make me laugh.

    Sincerely,

    Competent Adult

  9. #229
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    ^WOW! What an incredibly condescending thing to say about "poor/middle class" individuals who work those "dead end 9-5" jobs.

    Do you look down on everyone that provides services?, because that sector of labor continues to go up while other sectors (manufacturing) are farmed out overseas, making it more and more difficult to find full-time work with benefits.

    You certainly seem to have some beef with those lowly middle class people who do WORK for a living.
    i don't have a problem with them, it's just not my ideal of good living.

    you're telling me you want to work at a job with zero opportunity for advancement, learning, growth until you're 65? the dead end part is the key here.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  10. #230
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's not just condecending. It's a ridiculous, easily debunkable false argument.

    It's bad enough when someone who is actually right is condenscending. When someone is just making silly, misinformed statements and combines it with condescension, it's an Intertardz travesty.
    and your arguments about all business owners seeking to exploit the huddled masses is valid?

    please, grow up.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

Similar Threads

  1. Are you a nice user or are you gonna get banned?
    By hommefatal in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: 08-03-2016, 08:28 PM
  2. Things you just don't get
    By EcK in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 02-10-2011, 09:38 AM
  3. [MBTItm] NFs: Do you have problems with getting to know _NTPs in relationships?
    By Halfjillhalfjack in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-02-2010, 03:15 AM
  4. I am gonna get some beer from the gas station
    By entropie in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 11-06-2008, 10:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO