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  1. #161
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Well okay, if that source is correct then I guess I'll have to own up to just being misinformed on this part. That leads to an interesting question: Why is the Japanese school system so much more successful than ours?

    Does this go beyond economics into broader cultural attitudes?

    Yes.

    In japanese culture, students WANT to learn. It's of great disgrace to do poorly in school. Unlike in the states, where yeu'll get yelled at maybe, or grounded, YEU GET DISOWNED.

    There's a massive emphasis culturally on holding up a family name and providing honour to those they are related to. This's a massive change in mode of thought to our own on the west side of things, where we're more individualistic.

    The short form is though, that schoolwork for the kids is treated like life and death, if they do bad, they make their parents look bad, and it's stressed culturally from birth that they HAVE to respect their parents to an intense degree, far moreso than we hold here.

    DUe to that, they want to actually learn and get better.

    In the states? Kids go to school because they have to, primarily, not because they want to.

    Therein lies yeur biggest difference.

  2. #162
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    If you believe the just world hypothesis, you have no choice but to be a total anarchist.

    The rest of us will be waiting in the real world whenever you're ready.

    Do tell Puff the Magic Dragon I said hello on your way out of Imagination Land, though.
    Umm... the fact that I even referred to it as the "just world hypothesis" should have indicated that I think it's a bunch of bullshit.

    Oh, and there's another big difference between Japan and the US when it comes to education - they don't have a huge gap in the middle of summer. Most info I've seen indicates that this is the biggest controllable factor in socioeconomic difference in educational performance.

  3. #163
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Japanese school teachers are paid like doctors and are highly respected members of society. The problem is that in the US, we don't pay teachers enough in comparison to other professions to motivate the good ones to want to do it. (Check out the ratio of teacher:doctor pay in Japan vs. in the US...you might be surprised.)
    You haven't thought this through. Doctors require 8 years of schooling, plus several years of residency before they're allowed to practice...and you're suggesting someone with just 4 years of schooling should get paid at the same level. That's absurd. A better comparison would be teachers vs engineers. Teachers are still paid less than engineers, but by a much smaller amount and they also have 3 months off in the summer. So teachers are only working about 9 months out of the year.

    When you consider all of this, you'll realize that teachers aren't nearly as underpaid as they would like to make everyone believe.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #164
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You haven't thought this through. Doctors require 8 years of schooling, plus several years of residency before they're allowed to practice...and you're suggesting someone with just 4 years of schooling should get paid at the same level. That's absurd. A better comparison would be teachers vs engineers. Teachers are still paid less than engineers, but by a much smaller amount and they also have 3 months off in the summer. So teachers are only working about 9 months out of the year.

    When you consider all of this, you'll realize that teachers aren't nearly as underpaid as they would like to make everyone believe.
    People should be paid according to how much time they take working? That sounds dangerously like a labor theory of value.

    How very... Marxist of you.

  5. #165
    . Blank's Avatar
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    Yeah, but when you consider that most teachers have to deal with hundreds of little snot-nosed fuckers running around all day every day, you'd think twice.

    Not every teacher is paid close to $51k. It wildly varies based upon location. My sister, for instance makes only about $36,000 a year.


    Also: In Japan, children regularly attend cram school. I suggest reading the wikipedia page on it before you keep on glorifying Japan. Juku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  6. #166
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    People should be paid according to how much time they take working? That sounds dangerously like a labor theory of value.

    How very... Marxist of you.
    You did a wonderful job of incorrectly analyzing my post. But that's to be expected since I wrote things you didn't want to read, so you're trying to make it sound like I wrote something that I plainly did not write.

    Now's your opportunity to tell me to "lighten up".
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #167
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Yeah, but when you consider that most teachers have to deal with hundreds of little snot-nosed fuckers running around all day every day, you'd think twice.

    Not every teacher is paid close to $51k. It wildly varies based upon location. My sister, for instance makes only about $36,000 a year.


    Also: In Japan, children regularly attend cram school. I suggest reading the wikipedia page on it before you keep on glorifying Japan. Juku - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    $4000/month is not bad. That's more than many college graduate engineers are making now. How long has your sister been a teacher?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #168
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You did a wonderful job of incorrectly analyzing my post. But that's to be expected since I wrote things you didn't want to read, so you're trying to make it sound like I wrote something that I plainly did not write.

    Now's your opportunity to tell me to "lighten up".
    Or... it's the implication of what you were saying, even if you didn't intend it to be as such. Perhaps I'd suggest being more careful in your wording in the future if you don't want there to be any misinterpretation on the part of the reader?

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post



    Here we go with more lolbertarian fantasy. "Oh yeah um, don't worry about people slipping through the cracks, I'm sure the kind-hearted people of America will simply donate enough charity to support equal educational opportunities for all!"

    Ironically this smacks of the socialist fantasy that we can just assign jobs to people because everyone is magically a nice enough guy to place the good of the state above his own welfare. How naive on both sides!





    Your entire plan seems to be based on wishful thinking and blind faith in massive sums of imaginary charity. And lolbertarians call economic liberals impractical? Really?

    THIS.

    YES.


  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post


    False. According to the American Federation of Teachers, the average American public school teacher made $51,009 in the 2006-07 school year. If you can find a gas station that is paying people $1,000 a week, send me the hiring officer's info.
    Okay, here you go again with your ridiculous average statistics that you're always spitting out.

    What you're missing here is that most teachers in their first five years of teaching aren't even earning $30,000. In states and towns where the standard of living is lower, such as the rural mid-West, teachers are paid as low as $16,000 per year. This $51,000 per year average that you're getting includes veteran teachers of 20 and 30 years or more, plus teachers from some of the most expensive cities in the US, such as New York or San Francisco.

    So in essence, your little number here doesn't disprove Simulated World's point. He's right. Teacher's are grossly underpaid for the amount of work they do. They aren't just teachers, they're baby-sitters, counselors, and sometimes even impromptu social workers. Not only that, but many people don't even comprehend just how educated teachers are, and how much post-graduate schooling they do periodically to simply keep their teaching licence. I know a vet teacher who basically has a PhD minus the dissertation because of all of the post-grad work she's had to do to keep her job over 30+ years. People who are that educated deserve to be paid what they are worth.

    In order for you to correctly understand what teachers are paid, I suggest at you look at something more along the lines of this:

    Average Teacher Salary by State

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