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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    First of all, Peter Bagge didn't even vote for Bush, so I don't see why he's on there. Secondly, Radley Balko voted for Bush once, then voted against him. That certainly does not make one a "former Republican." This doesn't even ask party affiliation. And YOU brought up Matt Welch, who didn't vote for either McCain or Obama. What is your point?

    P.S. Bruce Bartlett is hardly a libertarian.
    I didn't even know who matt welch was until you brought up the article from the New York Post.

    McCarthyism, I'm not even going to argue about. If you don't think it was exaggerated hype to blacklist artists, filmmakers and writers you're probably the same kind of ingnoramous, on Hoover's dick, thinking Martin Luther King was dangerous subversive.

    For the third time, why can't you answer the question? Since you claim you are libertarian, why not tell me what exactly is libertarian about McCain? I asked Flak the same question over at intpcentral and he couldn't name any reasons either, yet calls himself a libertarian who supports McCain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So everyone who voted for Bush is a Republican, but not everyone who voted for Obama is a Democrat. Do you not see the logical inconsistencies of your argument? Or do you just ignore them?
    Everyone who voted for Obama is also a democrat. If you vote for the party you are effectively democrat or republican regardless of whether you agree with every policy point of the party you voted for.

    If you claim you are libertarian, one supposedly would vote for the candidate, Democrat or Republican, that aligns with libertarian ideals; thus you can be a libertarian and a democrat.

    The so called libertarians who would vote for McCain obviously don't know what libertarianism is as the ones here can't even bring up any points on how McCain supports libertarian ideals.

    Therefore, there simply republicans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blank View Post
    Meanlittlechimp just needs to take a second to shut the fuck up. His argument that MOST libertarians are just Republicans with grudges is completely unfounded.

    Spoilers: Most libertarians would be considered "independents:" people who don't subscribe to the libertarian party, but believe in libertarian ideals.
    I didn't say most, I said many. I would apply most to the pseudo-libertarians on this forum, however. True libertarians could never vote for McCain.

    If you disagree, make a fucking point; tell me how the libertarians here who support McCain, are actually libertarian.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 08-29-2009 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Merging 3 post(s)

  2. #112
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    as the ones here can't even bring up any points on how McCain supports libertarian ideals.
    McCain is quite against the ability of the president to be able to shut down the internet in case of an "emergency"
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  3. #113
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    True libertarians could never vote for McCain.
    While I consider myself a "liberal-conservative" rather than a "libertarian," (and yes, I am a "Republican" for all practical purposes) I think a pragmatic libertarian may vote for McCain over Obama for any number of reasons. The biggest issue for me is the composition of the Supreme Court; without originalist jurisprudence there is no real rule of law, and no Constitutional rights or limitations on government authority are secure from Executive or Legislative challenges. Pragmatic libertarians of a Hayekian bent in particular might agree with me on this issue, or with valuing long-term means over short-term ends more generally (Hayek seems to have been indirectly influenced by Burke as much as he was directly influenced by von Mises). More broadly, pragmatic libertarians may simply value economic liberties more highly than other types of liberties, either for instrumental reasons or for arbitrary personal reasons.

  4. #114
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    More broadly, pragmatic libertarians may simply value economic liberties more highly than other types of liberties, either for instrumental reasons or for arbitrary personal reasons.
    That's basically it.

    Libertarians often talk about civil liberties and being anti-war, but when it comes down to it, it's mostly about capitalism.

  5. #115
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    lolbertarians ftw

    I'm still waiting for the government to create an entire department devoted to writing up individualized budgets for every private citizen in the US detailing precisely how much of each public service each person used, because BY GOD I AM NOT PAYING ONE CENT FOR ANY SERVICE I DON'T DIRECTLY UTILIZE!

    "All right Mr. Smith, you drove precisely 22,762.1 miles on public roads this year..."

    Of course then they could all start whining that the government is wasting way too much money itemizing their specific budgets, and then we can just do away with government entirely and live in total anarchy, since that would clearly be better than--my GOD--paying a little extra out of your income for government services you don't utilize!

    lolbertarians. gotta love em. The best part is that they live in fantasy-land just as much as the far left socialists that they so hate, the tragic irony being that in their search for theoretical "fairness" they've created the most impractical system of government since the concept of government was created. Great job guys!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #116
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    I didn't even know who matt welch was until you brought up the article from the New York Post.
    He's the editor-in-chief of Reason.


    McCarthyism, I'm not even going to argue about. If you don't think it was exaggerated hype to blacklist artists, filmmakers and writers you're probably the same kind of ingnoramous, on Hoover's dick, thinking Martin Luther King was dangerous subversive.
    McCarthy was pure hype. However, anti-communism was not. If you really don't believe that there was a serious infiltration of Communists (often spies for the Soviet Union) in the federal government in the 1930s and 1940s, then you are just clueless. It happened. It was real. Stop conflating one demagogue with an entire anti-communist movement. It's ridiculous.


    For the third time, why can't you answer the question? Since you claim you are libertarian, why not tell me what exactly is libertarian about McCain? I asked Flak the same question over at intpcentral and he couldn't name any reasons either, yet calls himself a libertarian who supports McCain.
    I ANSWERED THE QUESTION! Let me reiterate AGAIN, since you do not seem to understand this:

    1) I registered Republican for the 2008 GOP Primary to vote for Ron Paul because I dislike John McCain.

    2) I never said that John McCain was libertarian. NOT ONCE.

    3) Once the two major party candidates were in place, I said that I would rather see McCain win than Obama because, tactically, it would be better in terms of gridlock/balance/veto power to have a center-right Republican in the White House while the Congress was controlled by left-of center Democrats. How you fail to understand this concept is baffling.


    Learn to read my posts, or do not bother to respond to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    lolbertarians ftw

    I'm still waiting for the government to create an entire department devoted to writing up individualized budgets for every private citizen in the US detailing precisely how much of each public service each person used, because BY GOD I AM NOT PAYING ONE CENT FOR ANY SERVICE I DON'T DIRECTLY UTILIZE!

    "All right Mr. Smith, you drove precisely 22,762.1 miles on public roads this year..."

    Of course then they could all start whining that the government is wasting way too much money itemizing their specific budgets, and then we can just do away with government entirely and live in total anarchy, since that would clearly be better than--my GOD--paying a little extra out of your income for government services you don't utilize!

    lolbertarians. gotta love em. The best part is that they live in fantasy-land just as much as the far left socialists that they so hate, the tragic irony being that in their search for theoretical "fairness" they've created the most impractical system of government since the concept of government was created. Great job guys!
    Since when was one of the libertarian platforms an itemized tax expenditure for every taxpayer? Oh, that's right: it never was, and you're just being a tool. Awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    That's basically it.

    Libertarians often talk about civil liberties and being anti-war, but when it comes down to it, it's mostly about capitalism.
    Wrong.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 08-29-2009 at 01:27 AM. Reason: Merging 3 post(s)
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #117
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Since when was one of the libertarian platforms an itemized tax expenditure for every taxpayer? Oh, that's right: it never was, and you're just being a tool. Awesome.
    And the "I Still Take Everything Literally Regardless of Context" award goes to......
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #118
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    And the "I Still Take Everything Literally Regardless of Context" award goes to......

    OK, so make an actual point, instead of just making stuff up. What are you talking about?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #119
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Okay, here:

    My post used exaggerated humor to illustrate a point about the impracticality of Libertarian philosophy. This is a common technique in satire.

    I invented the specific budgets thing to point out how silly I think it is that Libertarians are so obsessed with never paying a single dime toward any cause that doesn't directly benefit them that it makes them very myopic toward much larger and more important issues.

    This doesn't mean I think Libertarians literally believe the government should write an itemized budget for every citizen every year, but rather that I think the paranoid absurdity that is their position on taxation/use of public government programs is childish, naive and brutally impractical.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #120
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    I invented the specific budgets thing to point out how silly I think it is that Libertarians are so obsessed with never paying a single dime toward any cause that doesn't directly benefit them that it makes them very myopic toward much larger and more important issues.
    Yes they do. It's called charity. Twice as effective as Govt. Charity is, perhaps, one of the most strongest properties of Libertarianism. And, most certainly, invented by Libertarianism
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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