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  1. #81
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Fascism and communism didn't really result in great benefits. They were outright disasters.
    Neither required a global cataclysmic war to lift their countries out of the Great Depression. In 1935, fascism and communism were doing MUCH better than international liberalism. So much so that Huey Long was threatening to beat Roosevelt in 1936, and the Business Plot nearly ended our government a year later.

    Say what you will, but Mussolini did make the trains run on time. Hitler did revive Germany from its Versailles crippling.

    Hopefully, the rise of a private sector-based bourgeoisie will encourage more responsive and liberal government there.
    Why would it? It didn't happen in South America when neoliberal dictators were installed there.

    I completely disagree. You think there is no moral or ethical component of capitalism? What about the right to private property? Are our rights just based on utilitarianism? I should hope not.
    What is moral about private property? It's simply converting matter into commodities. A perfectly economic setup. Besides, the idea of private property being moral completely breaks down with the example of chattel slavery.

    Yes, our rights are ultimately based on utilitarianism. What is the meaning of the word "right" in this context in the first place? When the Enlightenment was in its zenith, the word "right" literally meant "it is right for people to have this capability in our society". Reading further, it meant "it works the best for people to have these capabilities in our society". That's what Rousseau was alluding to in his writings on the social contract - that we agree that certain things work best when people are free to be individuals, and other things work best when
    collectively applied.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    People see a corner of a picture and assume that the whole picture is bad.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  3. #83
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I guess Usehername is making a good point and a good distinction: It's difficult to learn something from a purely academic standpoint and "understand" it thoroughly. I suppose it's a lot like learning a language itself, in how you can't just simply redefine words in a dictionary, because the ideas and concepts used to form those words (slowly, over time) came from an entirely different flow and pool of knowledge, a different background.

    Nevertheless, when the topic is brought to such a fundamental level as that, in many cases there doesn't seem to be much practical reason to do so. (Not to mention how impractical it is for the average U.S. dweller to even try to gain such cultural knowledge firsthand.) I already see some points that would matter, though, such as politics, because part of the purpose of politics is the interaction and relation with other nations of the world.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    How about some examples?
    I would say it is more a case of home ideologies than international, but America are definitely the biggest and best at it when it comes to polluting. Their ability to warm the globe and change weather patterns is putting us all to shame.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  5. #85
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    uhh hello we're AMERICA we don't need any foreign image cuz we're the BESSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #86
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    I would say it is more a case of home ideologies than international, but America are definitely the biggest and best at it when it comes to polluting. Their ability to warm the globe and change weather patterns is putting us all to shame.

    China is the world's leading producer of pollution now.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #87
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Neither required a global cataclysmic war to lift their countries out of the Great Depression. In 1935, fascism and communism were doing MUCH better than international liberalism. So much so that Huey Long was threatening to beat Roosevelt in 1936, and the Business Plot nearly ended our government a year later.
    Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were spending so much money on defense and heavy industry that it was bound to stimulate their economies in the short term. That cannot last. The Soviet Union's economy was consistently much smaller than that of the United States and other Western capitalist nations. Also, the "Business Plot" was never even proven to be real.


    Say what you will, but Mussolini did make the trains run on time. Hitler did revive Germany from its Versailles crippling.
    That is abhorrently flippant. Both of those countries were nearly destroyed by those fanatics.


    Why would it? It didn't happen in South America when neoliberal dictators were installed there.
    1) None of those dictators started out as "neoliberals"; and 2) yes, eventually things got better.


    What is moral about private property? It's simply converting matter into commodities. A perfectly economic setup. Besides, the idea of private property being moral completely breaks down with the example of chattel slavery.
    If you believe that you have a natural right to acquire property and that it cannot be taken away from you without due process of law, how is that not moral? And no, the idea of private property being moral does NOT break down with the example of chattel slavery in any way, shape, or form if you believe in self-government. Another human being cannot be made property against his or her will. That is fundamental.


    Yes, our rights are ultimately based on utilitarianism. What is the meaning of the word "right" in this context in the first place? When the Enlightenment was in its zenith, the word "right" literally meant "it is right for people to have this capability in our society". Reading further, it meant "it works the best for people to have these capabilities in our society". That's what Rousseau was alluding to in his writings on the social contract - that we agree that certain things work best when people are free to be individuals, and other things work best when
    collectively applied.
    That is complete nonsense. You think that the Founding Fathers meant that "it works best for people to have these capabilities in our society" when they wrote about "unalienable rights?" What part of "unalienable" is misunderstood there?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #88
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    What's the difference between being less intelligent and more ignorant/closed-minded? Isn't being ignorant and closed-minded by definition being less intelligent?
    No.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #89
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post

    I can't help but notice that people from other countries are more intelligent on average than other American members I come across.
    Would you care to explain this in more detail ?

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    China is the world's leading producer of pollution now.
    Ahh, the beauty of outsourcing . Nah, actually America is starting to be more conscious. Still there are some really, really wasteful practices in place there compared to most of the world.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

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