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  1. #121
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, actually, the USA still hasn't figured out that the cold war is over.
    Really.....best evidence of this is our still hostile policies towards Russia.

  2. #122
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Somalia was police work. Most of our trade sanctions are police work. Some of our interventions were very ideologically-based, too. Your purely materialist reasoning is incomplete.
    Chile 73. CIA policework.
    Hungary 56. Voice of America.
    Chimp asks odd questions. It is as if she did not know.

  3. #123
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Really.....best evidence of this is our still hostile policies towards Russia.
    I think that has more to do with Russia's activities in their "near abroad." If supporting the democratic consolidation and territorial integrity of Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova (not to mention the NATO countries in Eastern Europe) counts as "hostile" foreign policy, then so be it.

    Anyways, Russia may not be our friend, but they are not an existential threat anymore, either in terms of raw power projection or ideological influence (and their power is going to precipitously decline over the next 15-20 years due to their rock-bottom fertility rates and high death rate among middle-aged men). Our present hostility concerning Russia has very little to do with the Cold War, except within the minds of Putin's regime.

  4. #124
    Sniffles
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    Probably the most asinine concoction of the Cold War was that its end somehow signified the 'End of History' - ala Francis Fukuyama.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I think that has more to do with Russia's activities in their "near abroad."
    Even if so, it's still Russia's sphere of influence. What the hell interests do we have there?


    If supporting the democratic consolidation and territorial integrity of Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova (not to mention the NATO countries in Eastern Europe) counts as "hostile" foreign policy, then so be it.
    I repeat, what the hell does all this have to do with American interests? Since you brought it up, what real purpose does NATO serve now that the Cold War is over; except occasionally bomb the Balkans?

  6. #126
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Probably the most asinine concoction of the Cold War was that its end somehow signified the 'End of History' - ala Francis Fukuyama.
    Yeah, but that thought, or at least that mentality, sadly permeates America right now. And it scares Americans. Who wants history to be over? I America has handled the post-Cold War world much like a middle-aged man who lost his lifelong job. It's having a hard time matching it's perception with the change in its life, because doing so threatens its sense of purpose.

    I personally think the way we keep trying to sum up our enemy as a big monolith of "Islamo-Fascism" is another sign of this. Having no USSR or Communism around, we are trying hard to make up a replacement for them.
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  7. #127
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Even if so, it's still Russia's sphere of influence. What the hell interests do we have there?




    I repeat, what the hell does all this have to do with American interests? Since you brought it up, what real purpose does NATO serve now that the Cold War is over; except occasionally bomb the Balkans?
    Well, for starters, they are helping us (albeit grudgingly in many cases) in Afghanistan, and the NATO military structure has also aided with global anti-terrorist actions. More broadly, NATO provides the general benefits of a collective security framework if we are attacked (which in fact helps to DETER future attacks against ourselves and our allies). It also has the effect of strengthening cultural connections between Western countries (something I believe you care more about than I do).

  8. #128
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yeah, but that thought, or at least that mentality, sadly permeates America right now. And it scares Americans. Who wants history to be over? I America has handled the post-Cold War world much like a middle-aged man who lost his lifelong job. It's having a hard time matching it's perception with the change in its life, because doing so threatens its sense of purpose.

    I personally think the way we keep trying to sum up our enemy as a big monolith of "Islamo-Fascism" is another sign of this. Having no USSR or Communism around, we are trying hard to make up a replacement for them.
    Yes I very much agree. It's like we took our ideological propaganda more seriously than our former foes ever did. Whatever ideological component there was to the Cold War, good old fashion geo-politics played probably a more important role in it.

    Perfect example being how Nixon improved relations with Communist China(a mere 20 years after fighting them in the Korean War) to help further the rift between them and the Soviet Union.

    If America could face down a nuclear-armed Soviet Union for 50 years; then North Korea, Iran, and anyother "Rogue" state should be more than a piece of cake.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Well, for starters, they are helping us (albeit grudgingly in many cases) in Afghanistan, and the NATO military structure has also aided with global anti-terrorist actions. More broadly, NATO provides the general benefits of a collective security framework if we are attacked (which in fact helps to DETER future attacks against ourselves and our allies).
    And who exactly is going to attack us?


    It also has the effect of strengthening cultural connections between Western countries (something I believe you care more about than I do).
    I'm not an Atlanticist.

  10. #130
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    I think Russia has simply turned off the American diplomatic and military complexes with their attitude. They never fully shed their paranoid tendencies, and they are starting to interfere with independent countries. That thing is always frowned upon. Well, when OTHER countries beside the U.S. do it, that is.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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