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  1. #11
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    The Church has every right to their policy, but I fail to see how an American flag would hurt anything, especially if the family in question wanted it there.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's kind of a hard topic and I'm not even sure how to discuss it because my goal isn't to be offensive and I know that my experience is not everyone's.

    For me, it sort of makes my skin crawl though because I spent much of my life in a conservative church setting where God was always assumed to be behind any Republican-president war effort. "God, Guns, and Country" is also the predominate feeling around here in central PA. All three are assumed to be the same -- God is Republican and Christian and pro-military. It was really hard to be in prayer circles with people because if you did not take a particular list of stances on issues, you were viewed as unpatriotic and unChristian and (at best) confused... and meanwhile if you opened your mouth, it caused all sorts of trouble. It's hard to be accepted as Christian if you are a Democrat; same goes if you're a pacifist; and you are actually deemed as unpatriotic.

    The point is that the Church should be big enough to not be commandeered by one political mindset, but this has happened a lot at least in the conservative end of things.

    This might not be particularly why the Catholic church issued this policy, but it's sort of tied to the thinking behind it. God is bigger than one country's political conveniences and stances.
    I can understand that, even if I don't entirely agree with it, but my main problem is that the Church apparently refused to allow the loved ones of the deceased to remove the flag after entering the Church, or put it back on before leaving the Church-forcing the mourners to do these things while standing in the cold sends the wrong (unintended) message, which overshadows the entire spiritual purpose of the church doctrine.

  3. #13
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Considering the Catholic Church's role in a lot of political history and behind the scenes inter-play in the last century...this is kind of ridiculous. I can see and understand (and agree) with the benefits of separation of church and state...but the church separating this issue by their own discretion? I don't know. Seems kind of petty and against principle if they fight for any right to use prayer in school, etc. I don't know. Maybe I'm drunk and not understanding the whole picture or situation. But yeah. Seems kind of hypocritical.
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  4. #14
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    On one hand, I can see how the American flag would be an inappropriate symbol for a Church. I remember I went to one Church a long time ago, and for some reason I felt slightly disgusted when I saw an American flag right behind the preacher. I couldn't quite put my finger on it at the time, but now that I've heard this, it makes sense... it's like using it as an idol.

    From an American perspective, it violates Church/State separation, and from a Church perspective, it's a form of idolatry. So under both ethical systems, one could acknowledge that it really doesn't belong there.

    On the other hand, this guy was a veteran... and it's not like the flag would have been in the Church (is it?). I'd say if there's ever a good excuse for an exception, it should be made for a war veteran's funeral (of any country, not just the US) because those guys are special.

    I suppose now, though, it would probably be better for veterans to opt for a military funeral on less hallowed ground, rather than a church funeral.

  5. #15
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    On one hand, I can see how the American flag would be an inappropriate symbol for a Church. I remember I went to one Church a long time ago, and for some reason I felt slightly disgusted when I saw an American flag right behind the preacher. I couldn't quite put my finger on it at the time, but now that I've heard this, it makes sense... it's like using it as an idol.

    From an American perspective, it violates Church/State separation, and from a Church perspective, it's a form of idolatry. So under both ethical systems, one could acknowledge that it really doesn't belong there.
    No, it doesn't. How could it "violate" a Church/State separation? We don't have a legal separation of Church and State in this country. There is nothing to prevent a church from having an American flag. In fact, my Catholic parochial school always had the American flag and the flag of the Vatican flying. From the other direction, is it detrimental to have Catholic priests and Baptist ministers as chaplains for the Armed Forces? I don't have an issue with that in the least. Your disgust seems really inappropriate.


    On the other hand, this guy was a veteran... and it's not like the flag would have been in the Church (is it?). I'd say if there's ever a good excuse for an exception, it should be made for a war veteran's funeral (of any country, not just the US) because those guys are special.

    I suppose now, though, it would probably be better for veterans to opt for a military funeral on less hallowed ground, rather than a church funeral.
    The Church has every right to determine how they want a funeral service on their property should take place. It's just seems very petty on their part.
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