User Tag List

First 3644454647 Last

Results 451 to 460 of 469

Thread: Healthcare

  1. #451
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Well, if we wait until we get a handle of the obesity crisis in America, then we will be waiting an indefinite period of time because the problem is so pervasive and far-reaching, and, imo, seemingly unfixable. Also, you are arguing that money is more important than health, which is the main problem of the current regime (companies in control, not gov't). If we can identify what a huge problem obesity is, then that's even more reason to step up gov't health care because obesity has gotten out of control while the current system has been in place. Why should my father-in-law not eat sausage at every meal (seriously) when he can just get his quintuplet bypass? He accessed health care only when he had an accident or injury throughout his lifetime, although he did have physicals at an older age. No discussion was ever made about diet because his cholesterol was always around 200. I can't help but think that if money (or lack of it) was more of an issue, the health care field in general would be more motivated to educate people more about the harm in choosing unhealthy lifestyles. But regardless, how can you get a handle on the obesity problem the best? It seems to me the health care field is a pretty good access point.

    I guess there are just two groups of people. Those that believe we should help those who cannot/won't help themselves to be healthy, and those that think we shouldn't.

    As a family we take care of ourselves, and so far we've been pretty lucky. But i care about others and want everyone to be as healthy as possible, even if I have to pay a bit more. Plus you never know about other things out of much of your control, like cancer.

    Finally, standing in the Super Wal-Mart checkout line in Galveston, Texas, it hit me, the scope of the obesity problem. Everywhere were stacks of snacks. Snacks at the checkout, snacks in piles before the checkout, snacks on the endcaps of the aisles, snacks at every corner of the store, snacks when you walk in and out the doors. Snacks, snacks, everywhere! I had the conscious thought that some kind of regulation is needed, kinda like occurred with cigarettes, regarding location in stores, sheer prevalence, and marketing! Who wouldn't want a Big Mac when it's staring you in the face at 10 pm on your large screen TV and the size of a basketball? That's capitalism in America. It sure works well, but at what costs?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  2. #452
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    1,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I guess there are just two groups of people. Those that believe we should help those who cannot/won't help themselves to be healthy, and those that think we shouldn't.
    And almost everybody, including those who oppose government control of healthcare, is a member of the first group.

    The matter is not whether we should help people get better healthcare, but how! In my opinion, competitive capitalism and voluntary charity are the only way to reduce the cost and improve the quality of healthcare -- thus making it easier for people to help themselves and for others to provide aid.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #453
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    And almost everybody, including those who oppose government control of healthcare, is a member of the first group.

    The matter is not whether we should help people get better healthcare, but how! In my opinion, competitive capitalism and voluntary charity are the only way to reduce the cost and improve the quality of healthcare -- thus making it easier for people to help themselves and for others to provide aid.
    I don't see any difference in this and what has currently been happening.

    I thought of a health care example whereby gov't involvement has made a major, positive impact on everyone's health: Immunizations. In the Clinton Era, the government decided immunizations were an important and worthy cause and started a huge campaign (with funding) to get all Americans immunized. You cannot escape the immunization propaganda (as i call it) if you try!! You are inundated in magazines, in health clinics (public and private, but mostly public), when you have a baby, on television, on billboards!, etc. And because of this, America is pretty good at getting vaccine preventable diseases under control (compared to the rest of the world for sure).

    I personally do not like to have my kids immunized with everything that is available, and i am glad i (barely!) have the option to opt out (and even that is only if i claim 'religious preference'), but from a public health standpoint, it has been amazingly successful. Granted a shot is easier to administer than education and lifestyle changes than say, for example, diabetes. But, a system of educating against chronic diseases and the impact lifestyle choices have on getting chronic diseases, is going a heck of a lot further than our current system does, where doctors get paid by HOW MANY (quantity of) patients they see in a day, not the quality of care they give.

    So, if the immunization model is anything to go by, I think the government has the ability to do a pretty good job (way better than the current system) of making/keeping people healthier.

    And to address your first sentence, I'm not so sure most people want to help their fellow man, especially if they perceive it means more money out of their own pockets. I think you make a false assumption there, and that the mentality 'you take care of yourself, I'll take care of myself' plays a huge underlying role in the fundamental discord with health care reform in general. I think it is just not voiced, because it doesn't sound very nice.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #454
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Don't listen to reason.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #455
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I don't see any difference in this and what has currently been happening.
    You can't be serious.

    I thought of a health care example whereby gov't involvement has made a major, positive impact on everyone's health: Immunizations. In the Clinton Era, the government decided immunizations were an important and worthy cause and started a huge campaign (with funding) to get all Americans immunized. You cannot escape the immunization propaganda (as i call it) if you try!! You are inundated in magazines, in health clinics (public and private, but mostly public), when you have a baby, on television, on billboards!, etc. And because of this, America is pretty good at getting vaccine preventable diseases under control (compared to the rest of the world for sure).
    Clinton? Really? The biggest successes with vaccines occurred long before Clinton's presidency. Remember small pox and polio?

    I personally do not like to have my kids immunized with everything that is available, and i am glad i (barely!) have the option to opt out (and even that is only if i claim 'religious preference'), but from a public health standpoint, it has been amazingly successful. Granted a shot is easier to administer than education and lifestyle changes than say, for example, diabetes. But, a system of educating against chronic diseases and the impact lifestyle choices have on getting chronic diseases, is going a heck of a lot further than our current system does, where doctors get paid by HOW MANY (quantity of) patients they see in a day, not the quality of care they give.
    So you praise a program, then you state that you don't participate? That's a nice bit of hypocrisy.

    So, if the immunization model is anything to go by, I think the government has the ability to do a pretty good job (way better than the current system) of making/keeping people healthier.
    What is this immunization model you're talking about? You're not trying to give Clinton credit for stopping small pox and polio, are you?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #456
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    There's one thing I don't understand about the idea they're discussing.

    If they're just going to force everyone to buy healthcare, whatever your ensurer's selling, then what about people without jobs? Assuming that everyone who needs health care has a job or is adequately employed isn't really reasonable in this market. Is the government going to have to cover for them, or will there need to be insurance companies, independent of work, that cover for it to get bigger and fill the void? How will they make it so that people who are unemployed can afford this?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #457
    Senior Member avolkiteshvara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    YaYa
    Posts
    895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    There's one thing I don't understand about the idea they're discussing.

    If they're just going to force everyone to buy healthcare, whatever your ensurer's selling, then what about people without jobs? Assuming that everyone who needs health care has a job or is adequately employed isn't really reasonable in this market. Is the government going to have to cover for them, or will there need to be insurance companies, independent of work, that cover for it to get bigger and fill the void? How will they make it so that people who are unemployed can afford this?
    It is supposed to follow the MA system.

    People who can't afford it will get it for free. If you have a shitty plan and it caps out at $5K, the public option will help subsidize it.

    The impose the fine when you file your taxes. When you file, you have to prove you have insurance. Otherwise you owe.

    I believe there are also exceptions for those who have religious beliefs about modern medical science like christian scientists. I think they would be given an option not to buy any.

  8. #458
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    165
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Here are some claims I've seen in health care

    Claim: Those who have insurance will not be effected

    Individuals and companies are required to own and pay for the new government plan, else substantial fines are applies. That being the case, if a company already must pay for the government plan, what makes you think they will still pay for private plans on top of that? Remember that a large majority of Americans receive their insurance through work. The vast majority will drop whatever private insurance they were supporting in favor just the government option.

    Also they plan on taxing insurance companies to pay for the public option, which as we all know, the price will be passed down onto consumers, making private insurance even less feasible.

    Claim: Illegals will not be covered under health care reform.

    Obviously he is talking about non emergency care, realistically you can't or shouldn't check status if the situation is life threatening. But citizenship checks were removed from the bill early on in the system; Though people speculate that they might be reintroduced this since Wilson's rude interruption.

    Claim: Health care reform will not add to the debt.

    The current predicted cost for the 10 year plan is already requiring that congress borrow money to support such.


    Politics aside, assuming he wants this health care to succeed, if such fails wouldn't the back lash against it destroy any hopes for such, delaying such at minimal for another generation, wouldn't you think Obama would lay a good foundation for his reform?

    Like reducing the amount of illegal immigrants, with many of the border states, overcrowding has occurred in both schools and medical institutions due to such, and early on in the senate they had a measure to card individuals who would be on the government program, but have gotten rid of this a while ago.

    Tort control, you can't deny that placing malpractice suit ceilings would help his program. Once of the biggest costs to doctors is mal practice insurance, to cover such, reduce the suits, reduce the costs of such insurance.

    Pro active preventive care, if government is going to control what we have to pay for health care and require us to own such, you think measures to reduce obesity, and to increase healthy habits would be a huge focus in this debate, yet it is very much lacking.

    Or reducing the fraud which is so rampant in medicare as Obama claims.

    Though I'm personally against it, it seems the proper prep work isn't being done to ensure the success of the reform.

    Honest question here, why isn't there any focus on creating an efficient atmosphere? It seems they want to throw the system out, without even looking, and no matter what side you are on, a failed system will be devestating to the US.

  9. #459
    . Blank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6
    Posts
    1,202

    Default

    (CBS) Over the last 20 years, the Love Me Tender animal rescue in central Tennessee has rounded up more than 1,000 abandoned dogs. And although most are timid and untrusting, CBS News correspondent Steve Hartman reports, one Rottweiler named Ella was notably different.

    "I could just tell right away she was somebody's baby. She just didn't act like a stray dog to me," said Kathy Wilkes-Myers, who found the dog a few months ago.

    Ella was emaciated and drinking from a drainage ditch along an empty stretch of highway. Kathy says it's typical for people to dump unwanted pets in the middle of nowhere - but again, the dog's demeanor convinced her there was more to the story. So she did some detective work, and what she found is a heart-wrenching tale of unending loyalty.

    "She was hoping her family could come back. But they couldn't. They couldn't come back. It just breaks your heart," said Kathy.

    Kathy found the first clues to this mystery - broken glass and tail lights - right near where she found the dog.

    More about the Love Me Tender Animal Rescue
    Read Steve Hartman's Preview Blog Here

    And just down from there, she found a second set of even more intriguing clues: personal items gathered up. By the dog, she assumed.

    "It was like she was sleeping with them - or waiting with them," Kathy said.

    She took a picture with her cell phone and then gathered the items. They were mostly random, personal things - toothbrush, comb, razor, a candle that said Michelle, but nothing that would explain anything - although now, she did have a hunch.

    Kathy remembered two weeks earlier she'd driven by an accident on the same stretch of highway. She remembered because it was such a horrible crash. A single car had flipped over and landed on the side of the road, at just about the same spot where she found the dog.

    Based on what she saw that day, Kathy figured there was no way a person could have survived, but what about a dog? So she called the highway patrol.

    "She gave me the mom's name and the dad's name and the mom's name was Michelle. And I thought, 'Oh my God, this is their dog," she said.

    Thrown from the car, rescue crews never saw the dog. She spent 13 days scavenging for food along the highway - and 13 nights bedding down with whatever she could find that smelled like her lost family.

    "That's the last spot she saw her family and she was going to stay there," Kathy said.

    Kathy figured it all out. But fortunately, she got one thing very wrong. Someone did survive the crash. In face, all five family members survived.

    "I'm lucky to be sitting here with my family," said Joe Kelly, the family's father.

    After two weeks believing that their dog, Ella, had died, the family of Joe and Michelle Kelly got the most wonderful, slobbery surprise of their lives.

    For the first time since the accident, the Kelly's had a good reason to cry -all thanks to a dog who refused to forget her family - and the stranger who refused to take lost for answer.

    Unfortunately, it was a bittersweet reunion because of the accident and the medical expenses, the Kelly family has had to temporarily relocate to a place that doesn't allow dogs.

    The good news is, Kathy has promised to hold onto Ella for as long as the Kelleys need to get back on their feet.
    This.
    Ti = 19 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Te = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ne = 16[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fi = 15 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Si = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Ni = 12 [][][][][][][][][][][][]
    Se = 11[][][][][][][][][][][]
    Fe = 0

    -----------------
    Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
    Man got to sit and wonder why, why, why;
    Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
    Man got to tell himself he understand

  10. #460
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,031

Similar Threads

  1. when will the U.S. get decent healthcare
    By prplchknz in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 97
    Last Post: 11-11-2012, 12:22 AM
  2. Alan Grayson on healthcare
    By avolkiteshvara in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-03-2009, 11:24 PM
  3. Healthcare is on the emergency room table
    By LostInNerSpace in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-24-2009, 11:48 AM
  4. Question for doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers...
    By EffEmDoubleyou in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-02-2008, 04:25 PM
  5. Contrive a healthcare industry acronym for "CFI"
    By Martoon in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-24-2007, 02:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO