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Thread: Healthcare

  1. #371
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    The four I happen to know are. They will tell people they aren't close to that it's altruism, but privately they treat it as a business to make money. Nothing more. They also gripe about gross, obese, or stupid people.
    And I know two who aren't in it for the money, not even close. And I'm one of those people that doesn't believe altruism exists. All I need is one to disprove the statement I quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    For those that think our health care system is just fine.
    Has anyone said the current system is "just fine"? Or is this another straw man?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Has anyone said the current system is "just fine"? Or is this another straw man?
    There are more than a few here that equate nationalized health care with the evils of collectivism and communism. Usually from the folks that supported McCain and call themselves "libertarians".

    Maybe you haven't been paying attention.

  3. #373
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    There are more than a few here that equate nationalized health care with the evils of collectivism and communism. Usually from the folks that supported McCain and call themselves "libertarians".

    Maybe you haven't been paying attention.
    Just because someone doesn't want a nationalized health care system does not mean that person believes the current system is fine.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  4. #374
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Just because someone doesn't want a nationalized health care system does not mean that person believes the current system is fine.
    indeed.
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  5. #375
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    There are more than a few here that equate nationalized health care with the evils of collectivism and communism. Usually from the folks that supported McCain and call themselves "libertarians".

    Maybe you haven't been paying attention.

    Which libertarians here supported McCain, by the way?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    Bingo! I hate when people bring up this ridiculous argument against a strong public option. It is most certainly happening when insurance companies decide which procedures will take place, how long you stay in the hospital, which policies are cancelled (recission), and who doesn't get a policy at all.

    We already have death panels: they are called insurance companies when they decide if your grandmother is too old for a certain life-saving procedure. Try to "appeal" an insurance company's decision and you will understand the meaning of futility.
    I'm sorry my INFJ friend, but you need to work on your 'T' and your 'P'. Lets try this together: you get to CHOOSE your insurance company. But with a public option, only the GOVERNMENT gets to choose.

    If you don't like the procedures your insurance company is picking, you can CHANGE your insurance company. But when the govt is running an enforced healthcare monopoly, like in Canada or the UK, you don't have a choice, unless you have zee beaucoup bucks. If you think private care in the US is expensive, try private care in the UK or Canada.

    Its really very simple.

    There's only 4 ways to spend money.

    If you spend your money on yourself, you try to get the best quality at the lowest price.

    If you spend your money on someone else, you don't pay much attention to the quality, but you try to get the lowest price.

    If you spend other people's money on yourself, you aim for the best possible quality, and don't care about the price.

    If you spend other people's money on other people, you don't pay attention to the quality, and to hell with the price!

    The last option, is the government option. And thats why governments that 'spread the wealth' inevitably go broke.

    Sometimes, I also wish everybody had free healthcare, and that all doggies went to heaven, and that the Israelis and the Palestinians held hands and skipped between the daisies, but then I switch off my F and start using my T. Ok, I lie, I'm heartless and don't have an F. But I recommend the same for you, because your opinions would then be more aligned to reality.

    ------

    BTW, I know healthcare in the US is messed up. But the way to fix it is to increase competition, not reduce it.
    1. Let insurance companies compete across state lines (currently they can't).
    2. Make it easier to open new medical schools (when was the last time you heard of a new medical school?) - i.e. cut down the silly regulation that restricts the number of doctors so that existing doctors can make more money.
    3. Allow more of the top foreign educated doctors to immigrate here (did you know that there is a double standard on standardised testing for domestic and foreign educated doctors?)
    4. Make it tougher to sue doctors for infinite dollars times two every time you get a hangnail. We passed tort reform in Texas, and as a result, Houston has the largest medical center... in the world. Yes, look it up.
    4. Stop robbing Peter to pay Paul. That will allow Peter to pay for his own health care, and incentivize Paul to take responsibility for his own life, rather than moan and complain about what the world owes him.

    Seriously: what does the world owe you, just by virtue of you being born?

    Why stop at free healthcare, why not move on to free sex, free beer and a free lunch? Many people would argue that those are even bigger priorities.

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  7. #377
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    For those that think our health care system is just fine. Pay attention to the last sentence.

    "A study reported in The American Journal of Medicine this month found that 62 percent of American bankruptcies are linked to medical bills. These medical bankruptcies had increased nearly 50 percent in just six years. Astonishingly, 78 percent of these people actually had health insurance, but the gaps and inadequacies left them unprotected when they were hit by devastating bills."

    Even if you don't give two fucks if the guy next to you drops dead from a curable ailment. Consider the handicap our industries have when competing against others internationally. Consider the awaiting catastrophe from the aging baby boomers that are going to love longer and drain our inefficient costly system til it breaks. It's not a moral question, it's a simple economic one.
    and there's still so many people that exclusively due to ideological roots argue in favor of private healthcare...it's funny how indoctrination works
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #378
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    and there's still so many people that exclusively due to ideological roots argue in favor of private healthcare...it's funny how indoctrination works
    i can't speak for others, but, as ComplexMango stated above, there are MANY reforms that can be implemented that will improve health care in the US without having to resort to a public option.

    should we commit so large a portion of our tax dollars to a potentially unnecessary public option simply because it's politically expedient to do so? as well, such a program, should it fail, cannot be reversed easily (if at all).
    I'm feeling rough, I'm feeling raw, I'm in the prime of my life.

  9. #379
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Maybe we could just expand Medicaid to cover more people, like low-income adults who are not pregnant or on disability, and charge them a premium on a sliding scale. We could allow companies that choose not to provide affordable, usable (reasonable deductibles and copays) health insurance, to pay X amount per employee hour to Medicaid to help cover the cost.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #380
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Maybe we could just expand Medicaid to cover more people, like low-income adults who are not pregnant or on disability, and charge them a premium on a sliding scale. We could allow companies that choose not to provide affordable, usable (reasonable deductibles and copays) health insurance, to pay X amount per employee hour to Medicaid to help cover the cost.
    Wouldn't that also reduce competition?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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