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Thread: Healthcare

  1. #351
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This issue has nothing to do with trust. Trust should be reserved for family and friends, not governments and corporations.
    Agreed.
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  2. #352
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Use implication to implicitly include people into the group of HC supporters.

    Need a simple message that can slip below the radar:

    HC reform is for people who care about the family

    HC is for people who want to protect their families.

    We have the support of people who want security for their families

    Not simple enough. Something short simple and catchy that can repeated over and over. Something that paints a powerful picture.

    This is exactly what the "socialism" message does.

    People are already sold on socialism. "Smart practical socialism" might be a good message or "Smart practical socialism like medicare". Rewire the bad message.

    Find trusted individuals in local communities (state, city, whatever) to replay the message. Sport stars, Judge judy, whatever.

    Repeat as often as ENTP.

  3. #353

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    Socialism - the answer to everything! Including free healthcare for all!!!


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  4. #354
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    ^ you do realize the bailouts started during the end of Bush's term? Oh, and we have socialized programs in the US already: SSA, Medicaid, Medicare, VA and they work, some for 60 years.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  5. #355
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    ^ you do realize the bailouts started during the end of Bush's term? Oh, and we have socialized programs in the US already: SSA, Medicaid, Medicare, VA and they work, some for 60 years.
    Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid WORK? Since when? When Medicare was sold to the American public in the 1960s, they estimated it would cost about $9 billion per year in 1990. It ended up being $67 billion in 1990. They are massively strained transfer systems.

    And bailouts are wrong, no matter who is in office.
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  6. #356
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComplexMango View Post
    Socialism - the answer to everything! Including free healthcare for all!!!
    The real parasites are those who feed off the poor. Poor people are treated like cattle. They are squeezed for all they are worth. The country could not function without people to do those low paying jobs. Conservatives are all about "supporting the troops". Why? Does it have something to do with sacrifice? How many sign-up to die on the battlefield? Most sign-up for the opportunity. What sacrifice do poor people make? Poor people's sacrifice lasts a lifetime. When people come out of the military at least they have healthcare from the VA--socialized medicine. The also have access to subsidized mortgages. Hands up all conservatives in favor axing the VA. Without those benefits it would be much harder to fill the ranks of a volunteer military.

  7. #357
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    The real parasites are those who feed off the poor. Poor people are treated like cattle. They are squeezed for all they are worth. The country could not function without people to do those low paying jobs. Conservatives are all about "supporting the troops". Why? Does it have something to do with sacrifice? How many sign-up to die on the battlefield? Most sign-up for the opportunity. What sacrifice do poor people make? Poor people's sacrifice lasts a lifetime. When people come out of the military at least they have healthcare from the VA--socialized medicine. The also have access to subsidized mortgages. Hands up all conservatives in favor axing the VA. Without those benefits it would be much harder to fill the ranks of a volunteer military.

    Military veterans have access to the VA because they are government employees, and even that has been ineffective (Walter Reed, anyone?). I would be a significant decrease in the size of the standing armed forces, because libertarians would be shutting down many of the overseas bases that are superfluous and libertarian foreign policy would mean the end of starting offensive wars and wasting American lives and taxpayers' money. We could easily take care of our veterans with proper medical care then. I hope you aren't in favor of bringing back the draft?
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  8. #358
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    The real parasites are those who feed off the poor. Poor people are treated like cattle. They are squeezed for all they are worth. The country could not function without people to do those low paying jobs. Conservatives are all about "supporting the troops". Why? Does it have something to do with sacrifice? How many sign-up to die on the battlefield? Most sign-up for the opportunity. What sacrifice do poor people make? Poor people's sacrifice lasts a lifetime. When people come out of the military at least they have healthcare from the VA--socialized medicine. The also have access to subsidized mortgages. Hands up all conservatives in favor axing the VA. Without those benefits it would be much harder to fill the ranks of a volunteer military.
    regardless of a soldier's intentions when signing up, if asked to fight and die for their country, they are obliged to do so. *that* is something i am fully willing to subsidize with my tax dollars.

    also, those same forces that you say squeeze the poor also benefit the poor. sure, we could pay the people who make toilet paper $50/hour, but for every other poor person toilet paper would cost a lot more than the $1 per roll it does currently.

    so, which group of poor people do you want to "save"?
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  9. #359
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/op...27kristof.html

    Health Care Fit for Animals
    By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

    Opponents suggest that a government takeover of health care will be a milestone on the road to socialized medicine, and when he hears those terms, Wendell Potter cringes. Hes embarrassed that opponents are using a playbook that he helped devise.

    Over the years I helped craft this messaging and deliver it, he noted.

    Mr. Potter was an executive in the health insurance industry for nearly 20 years before his conscience got the better of him. He served as head of corporate communications for Humana and then for Cigna.

    He flew in corporate jets to industry meetings to plan how to block health reform, he says. He rode in limousines to confabs to concoct messaging to scare the public about reform. But in his heart, he began to have doubts as the business model for insurance evolved in recent years from spreading risk to dumping the risky.

    Then in 2007 Mr. Potter attended a premiere of Sicko, Michael Moores excoriating film about the American health care system. Mr. Potter was taking notes so that he could prepare a propaganda counterblast but he found himself agreeing with a great deal of the film.

    A month later, Mr. Potter was back home in Tennessee, visiting his parents, and dropped in on a three-day charity program at a county fairgrounds to provide medical care for patients who could not afford doctors. Long lines of people were waiting in the rain, and patients were being examined and treated in public in stalls intended for livestock.

    It was a life-changing event to witness that, he remembered. Increasingly, he found himself despising himself for helping block health reforms. It sounds hokey, but I would look in the mirror and think, how did I get into this?

    Mr. Potter loved his office, his executive salary, his bonus, his stock options. How can I walk away from a job that pays me so well? he wondered. But at the age of 56, he announced his retirement and left Cigna last year.

    This year, he went public with his concerns, testifying before a Senate committee investigating the insurance industry.

    I knew that once I did that my life would be different, he said. I wouldnt be getting any more calls from recruiters for the health industry. It was the scariest thing I have done in my life. But it was the right thing to do.

    Mr. Potter says he liked his colleagues and bosses in the insurance industry, and respected them. They are not evil. But he adds that they are removed from the consequences of their decisions, as he was, and are obsessed with sustaining the companys stock price which means paying fewer medical bills.

    One way to do that is to deny requests for expensive procedures. A second is rescission seizing upon a technicality to cancel the policy of someone who has been paying premiums and finally gets cancer or some other expensive disease. A Congressional investigation into rescission found that three insurers, including Blue Cross of California, used this technique to cancel more than 20,000 policies over five years, saving the companies $300 million in claims.

    As The Los Angeles Times has reported, insurers encourage this approach through performance evaluations. One Blue Cross employee earned a perfect evaluation score after dropping thousands of policyholders who faced nearly $10 million in medical expenses.

    Mr. Potter notes that a third tactic is for insurers to raise premiums for a small business astronomically after an employee is found to have an illness that will be very expensive to treat. That forces the business to drop coverage for all its employees or go elsewhere.

    All this is monstrous, and it negates the entire point of insurance, which is to spread risk.

    The insurers are open to one kind of reform universal coverage through mandates and subsidies, so as to give them more customers and more profits. But they dont want the reforms that will most help patients, such as a public insurance option, enforced competition and tighter regulation.

    Mr. Potter argues that much tougher regulation is essential. He also believes that a robust public option is an essential part of any health reform, to compete with for-profit insurers and keep them honest.

    As a nation, were at a turning point. Universal health coverage has been proposed for nearly a century in the United States. It was in an early draft of Social Security.

    Yet each time, it has been defeated in part by fear-mongering industry lobbyists. That may happen this time as well unless the Obama administration and Congress defeat these manipulative special interests. Whats un-American isnt a greater government role in health care but an existing system in which Americans without insurance get health care, if at all, in livestock pens.
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  10. #360
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Don't people realize that health care is already rationed in this country?
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