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Thread: Healthcare

  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You're talking about colleges. The U.S. has the best colleges. We were talking about primary and secondary education, in which the U.S. is mediocre. Where is your point?
    Correct.

    U.S. primary and secondary education is mediocre compared to countries which practice democratic socialism.

    So where is your point?


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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I'm not hearing a great deal of intelligent, well-informed people speaking up about reform at these gatherings. I don't hear people discussing the nitty gritty details about the cost of doing nothing is far more costly than doing ANY type of reform. Rather I am hearing alot of irrational fear about death panels and socialization and communism and facism (evidently many Americans believe those are all interchangeable, and mean the same thing).
    Maybe you aren't looking that hard? There are plenty of people who have written and talked extensively about this topic. I wouldn't call fear about rationing of care "irrational," either. That is often what happens when the government gets involved. As for socialization, communism, and fascism, that is hyperbole, I agree. However, if you are someone who has a healthy distrust of Big Government (as most intelligent people do), you probably would be quite concerned about massive government intrusion into something so vitally important as your and your family's health care. The public option in particular would be a major expansion of government, and the government already has its hands all over health care in our country.


    I have seen mostly propaganda come out of their mouths, (and who in the hell carries an assault rifle to a townhall meeting where the Pres. is speaking?), and the insurance industry is laughing all the way to the bank. I just heard that insurance industry and health care industry stocks just shot up upon hearing the status of a public option is uncertain.
    A couple of things here. First of all, who brought an assault rifle to a meeting? Second of all, do you know what an "assault rifle" is? Third, good for health care stocks. I don't see how that has to do with anything we're discussing here. And tens of millions of people hold stock in health care companies, so are you happy to see them lose money? Shouldn't we be happy to see stocks go up in this country, given the shitty state of the economy right now?


    There are economic and societal benefits to having affordable health care and social safety nets. Other industrialized countries figured this out long ago.
    There is much to be argued here.
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  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Correct.

    U.S. primary and secondary education is mediocre compared to countries which practice democratic socialism.

    So where is your point?


    I took issue with the earlier statement that countries like Finland and France have superior primary and secondary education because they are "more socialist." I provided statistics showing that they actually spend less per student than the U.S. does. So the freest education market we have in the U.S. (colleges and universities) is the best in the world, but the most regulated (elementary schools and high schools) are lackluster by rich nation standards. Hmmm. . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    A couple of things here. First of all, who brought an assault rifle to a meeting? Second of all, do you know what an "assault rifle" is? Third, good for health care stocks. I don't see how that has to do with anything we're discussing here. And tens of millions of people hold stock in health care companies, so are you happy to see them lose money? Shouldn't we be happy to see stocks go up in this country, given the shitty state of the economy right now?
    Townhall meeting on Monday in Arizona approximately a dozen people showed up wearing guns, one man had a semi-automatic assault rifle (AR15) strapped to his back and a pistol. I have never shot an assault rifle but grew up in a family of hunters and was required to take a hunter's safety course, familiar with shotguns, rifles, target shooting practice. FYI: one of my favorite things as a kid was making shotgun shells with a hand press. These days I wouldn't dream of owning a firearm, much less take it to a public function and flaunt it where the Pres. is speaking.

    I knew you would grab that tidbit about stocks rising, yay for insurance companies making more money!
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  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    Townhall meeting on Monday in Arizona approximately a dozen people showed up wearing guns, one man had a semi-automatic assault rifle (AR15) strapped to his back and a pistol. I have never shot an assault rifle but grew up in a family of hunters and was required to take a hunter's safety course, familiar with shotguns, rifles, target shooting practice. FYI: one of my favorite things as a kid was making shotgun shells with a hand press. These days I wouldn't dream of owning a firearm, much less take it to a public function and flaunt it where the Pres. is speaking.

    I knew you would grab that tidbit about stocks rising, yay for insurance companies making more money!

    If you have a 401K with a diversified stock portfolio, there's a good chance you have a position in health care.

    About the assault rifle issue, I was asking because "assault rifle" is basically a made-up legal term. It only gained status in the U.S. from this:

    Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    The AR15 is a pretty serious weapon (semi-auto version of the M16/M4), and I think it's pretty silly to take any firearm to a civilized debate. However, people are clearly concerned about the protesting and counterprotesting erupting into violence. You'd be very polite to a man with an AR15. I am sure a lot of it is for show, as well. He was exercising his First Amendment rights (free speech and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances) and his Second Amendment rights (you know what those are). BTW, after the North Hollywood Shootout, AR15s are now standard issue for LAPD patrol cars (one per vehicle).
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  6. #326
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    He wrote higher education.
    Really?

    He's trying to change the focus of the argument, since we were talking about primary and secondary education. He didn't answer the question, given the context.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I knew you would grab that tidbit about stocks rising, yay for insurance companies making more money!
    When a company's stock price rises, profit does not increase. Stock prices are not causes, they are effects.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    When a company's stock price rises, profit does not increase. Stock prices are not causes, they are effects.

    This is correct, but upper management often benefit most when this happens, because A) their jobs will be safer; and B) they usually get copious amounts of stock as part of their compensation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    This is correct, but upper management often benefit most when this happens, because A) their jobs will be safer; and B) they usually get copious amounts of stock as part of their compensation.
    Yes, that was my point. I know when a stock market price increases, the company doesn't directly profit.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
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    I'm going to have to switch prescriptions because mine is too expensive.
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