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Thread: Healthcare

  1. #161
    Lasting_Pain
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    Public Opinion is not all worthwhile. Just because the public says something does not mean it is right for everyone one.

    Its amazing how many people sacrifice themselves for groupthink.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    Public Opinion is not all worthwhile. Just because the public says something does not mean it is right for everyone one.

    Its amazing how many people sacrifice themselves for groupthink.

    I wholeheartedly agree. I always reiterate that the United States is not a democracy, but a republic. That's a good thing. I wouldn't trust the majority of Americans to make decisions for myself or for each other. Some of them can't even make rational decisions for themselves.
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  3. #163
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I also find it extremely revolting that Obama's plan is compared to nazism and he is being called "Hitler."
    I prefer to think of him as "Big Brutha."

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    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    But what type of reform? The latest polls I've seen show that the majority of Americans do NOT want single-payer health care, and there is a major split between people who are concerned about extending coverage to the uninsured vs. those who are concerned with controlling costs.


    Poll: Americans divided on health care overhaul - USATODAY.com
    I read and reread this very brief article and poll several times but didn't come to the same conclusion as you...there is no mention of "single payer health care." Those words don't appear in the article or poll.

    What it does show is that expansion of coverage to uninsured vs. controlling costs are very inconsistent when it comes to results. There are splits for black and hispanic vs. white priorities, Southerners vs. Westerners, young vs. older people, ill vs. healthy. Seniors are overwhelmingly against health care reform. This is what I see in the poll.

    I would really like to see a poll that uses the specific language of "single payer health care" or "universal health care" and break that down into various demographics. My understanding is that Congress still has single payer bill discussions on the table, but it doesn't receive adequate media coverage.

    Technically, Medicare is single-payer, and isn't perfect, but no system is.
    Last edited by statuesquechica; 08-10-2009 at 07:39 PM. Reason: clarification
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I read and reread this very brief article and poll several times but didn't come to the same conclusion as you...there is no mention of "single payer health care." Those words don't appear in the article or poll.

    What it does show is that expansion of coverage to uninsured vs. controlling costs are very inconsistent when it comes to results. There are splits for black and hispanic vs. white priorities, Southerners vs. Westerners, young vs. older people.


    I would really like to see a poll that uses the specific language of "single payer health care" or "universal health care" and break that down into various demographics. My understanding is that Congress still has single payer bill discussions on the table, but it doesn't receive adequate media coverage.

    Sorry about that. Two different thought processes in those two sentences. Here is a brand new Rasmussen poll concerning single-payer specifically. Less than 1/3rd are pro-single payer.

    32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose - Rasmussen Reports
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  6. #166
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasting_Pain View Post
    Public Opinion is not all worthwhile. Just because the public says something does not mean it is right for everyone one.

    Its amazing how many people sacrifice themselves for groupthink.
    I agree with this as well. I was responding to an earlier miscommunication.

    I think there have been examples of this throughout history. I could give examples, but that might derail the thread.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  7. #167
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Sorry about that. Two different thought processes in those two sentences. Here is a brand new Rasmussen poll concerning single-payer specifically. Less than 1/3rd are pro-single payer.

    32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose - Rasmussen Reports
    It doesn't say the sample size for the telephone poll, which I always like to consider, but this is what I found most interesting about the article provided:

    "There's wide political disagreement over the single-payer issue. Sixty-two percent (62%) of Democrats favor a single-payer system, but 87% of Republicans are opposed to one. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 22% favor a single-payer approach while 63% are opposed. "

    I am not familiar with Rasmussen Reports (what is their political leaning?) but the poll shows another split on health care: Democrats vs. Republicans.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    It doesn't say the sample size for the telephone poll, which I always like to consider, but this is what I found most interesting about the article provided:

    "There's wide political disagreement over the single-payer issue. Sixty-two percent (62%) of Democrats favor a single-payer system, but 87% of Republicans are opposed to one. As for those not affiliated with either major party, 22% favor a single-payer approach while 63% are opposed. "

    I am not familiar with Rasmussen Reports (what is their political leaning?) but the poll shows another split on health care: Democrats vs. Republicans.

    Scott Rasmussen is a Republican, but their polls tend to be pretty good from what I have seen. They often use automated phone polling, rather than having a polltaker asking the questions. That seems to be positive, as they are often cited as the most accurate political polling firm. Those numbers are pretty compelling to me, particularly the near 3-1 opposed amongst people who are not affiliated with a major party, like myself.
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  9. #169
    (☞゚∀゚)☞ The Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I wouldn't trust the majority of Americans to make decisions for myself or for each other. Some of them can't even make rational decisions for themselves.
    Those polls you posted reaffirm my belief that Americans simply do not understand what a single-pay system would entail, or even what it is. Polls from the same website said that Americans are still fairly evenly divided on healthcare reform overall. I tend to wonder how these people think that every other developed nation seems to afford a nationalized system of healthcare, if they're so concerned with cost controlling as the primary issue for the world's richest government. If America ever wants to become progressive, it will need to shed a bit of its golden Libertarian qualities and either tax a bit more, or spend a bit less (on military), or both.. like any other G7 country.
    "Stop it, you fuck. Give him some butter."
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    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    A previous poll, can't remember the source and will have to look up, showed over 70% of Americans supported paying higher taxes if all people were insured.
    Yay! I found the poll when I looked at The Decline's earlier post regarding the media blackout of single payer option:

    ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Oct. 9-13, 2003. N=1,000 adults nationwide. MoE 3 (total sample). Fieldwork by TNS Intersearch.


    "Which of these do you think is more important: providing health care coverage for all Americans, even if it means raising taxes, OR, holding down taxes, even if it means some Americans do not have health care coverage?"

    Coverage for all 79%
    Holding down taxes 17%
    Unsure 4%

    "Which would you prefer: the current health insurance system in the United States, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance, OR, a universal health insurance program, in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that's run by the government and financed by taxpayers?"
    Current System 33%
    Universal Program 62%
    Unsure 6%


    This poll was taken several years back and shows very different results. It appears the strategies being used by the insurance companies and their lobbyists are working on many Americans, especially the elderly.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

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