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  1. #81
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    A good reason to stick to the Associated Press or Reuters is you just want straight news reporting.

  2. #82
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Given the political realities of the situation, he did do the right thing. He's not going to lose support by saying the police acted wrongly - most of his base is skeptical of the police in general. Likewise, not defending the African-American gentleman does open him up to criticisms of hypocrisy and Uncle Tom-ism.

    I don't see what's so terrible about that.
    Who is his base and why do you think it is most of them (I doubt it's most but OK) are skeptical of the police in the first place? I'm curious.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
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  3. #83
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Who is his base and why do you think it is most of them (I doubt it's most but OK) are skeptical of the police in the first place? I'm curious.
    Maybe he was referring to his black supporters, but they only make up a small portion of Obama's base.

  4. #84
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
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    I was wondering if there'd be a thread on this.

    First thoughts are that it's one of those cases where you can't *prove* anything - looks like the cop could very possibly argue he did nothing wrong - nothing against guidelines or out of turn. "Suspect became unruly" etc. That said, do I think an older white dude has an equal chance of being questioned in this manner? Hells no. And do I understand that there will be some underlying issues that might not be appreciated by everyone? Hells yes.

    Surprised by Obama's strong public statement too. Am not an Obama fan but I do admire his balls here - that kind of statement can be very inflammatory for some but also very validating and necessary for others.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  5. #85
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Who is his base and why do you think it is most of them (I doubt it's most but OK) are skeptical of the police in the first place? I'm curious.
    Liberals/leftists - tend to be anti-authoritarian, thus suspicious of the police
    Young people - have generally had nothing but negative contact with the police at their age
    Minorities - racial profiling and whatnot, police seen as a means of white oppression
    Industrial union workers - still a suspicion dating back to the days of strikebreaking
    Civil libertarians - very anti-authoritarian, particular disdain for the War on Drugs

    By and large, Obama's base is skeptical of police in general. That doesn't mean all 57% of people who voted for him are skeptical of the police - just that the 34% that he will get consistently generally trend that way.

  6. #86
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    By and large, Obama's base is skeptical of police in general. That doesn't mean all 57% of people who voted for him are skeptical of the police - just that the 34% that he will get consistently generally trend that way.
    Wouldn't that make this a politically stupid move, on his part? He risks alienating moderates while their support for him is slipping.

  7. #87
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Wouldn't that make this a politically stupid move, on his part? He risks alienating moderates while their support for him is slipping.
    Not so much. The GOP doesn't have anything resembling a coherent set of ideas right now, just a platform of how much they hate Obama. You don't win elections that way, especially since the vast majority still blames the Republicans for the economic crisis.

  8. #88
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Liberals/leftists - tend to be anti-authoritarian, thus suspicious of the police
    Young people - have generally had nothing but negative contact with the police at their age
    Minorities - racial profiling and whatnot, police seen as a means of white oppression
    Industrial union workers - still a suspicion dating back to the days of strikebreaking
    Civil libertarians - very anti-authoritarian, particular disdain for the War on Drugs

    By and large, Obama's base is skeptical of police in general. That doesn't mean all 57% of people who voted for him are skeptical of the police - just that the 34% that he will get consistently generally trend that way.
    OK, but I'm asking why do you think that suspicion is there...do you think it's rooted in valid experiences and based on consistent tumultuous encounters with law enforcement or just a holdover from days gone by?

    If it is a reality-based suspicion these groups have towards the police (civil libertarians getting arrested at Tea Parties??) that skepticism is not unfounded and the credibility of the police reports is justifiably dubious.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  9. #89
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, but I'm asking why do you think that suspicion is there...do you think it's rooted in valid experiences and based on consistent tumultuous encounters with law enforcement or just a holdover from days gone by?

    If it is a reality-based suspicion these groups have towards the police (civil libertarians getting arrested at Tea Parties??) that skepticism is not unfounded and the credibility of the police reports is justifiably dubious.
    Liberals/leftists - See WTO meetings in Seattle in 1999. Not only that, but the general disdain the police have for civil liberties, as it makes doing their job more difficult.

    Young people - most of them have either been involved with a completely unnecessary show of police action ("don't tase me bro") or know someone who has. General perception that police are there to keep youngsters from doing anything that annoys their elders (who can be oversensitive in their estimation). Drug and alcohol laws (especially 21 drinking age) doesn't help, either

    Minorities - 64% of the US population is of European descent. 30% of the prisoner population is the same.

    Union workers - large crackdown on strike action since the Reagan era (known for being "tough on crime"). Many strikebreakers are off-duty police.

    Civil libertarians - cops are the embodiment of unjust laws that they oppose.

  10. #90
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I don't see what the big deal is. Everyone seems to have pretty strong feelings about it, even though no one was actually there except Gates and Crowley. I've personally never seen a cop deal well with anyone who did any less than exactly what they wanted, but that's the nature of the job.

    Anyone who is completely against profiling is a moron, imo.

    With that said, it's easy to view the situation in retrospect with preconceived notions but that doesn't make our opinions relevant or helpful.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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