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  1. #31
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Racism is and will always be an issue everywhere you go. You can't defeat it. You can come damn close with laws of equality but in the end, everybody is naturally racist in his or her instincts. I read something by an Anthropologist that talked about how racism has been ingrained in out minds since the first humans walked the earth.

    You can say you aren't a racist and can practice in non racial ways, but you should certainly realize where it comes from.
    I agree that we need to recognize this tendency within ourselves, and each other. We were raised within a culture having its own set of beliefs, fears, aspirations that is passed from generation to generation. It's naive to say we aren't impacted by all aspects of that culture, good and bad.

    I have had many experiences with police officers doing case work, working in the judicial system, and even encountering them during civil disobedience actions. Obviously, there has been great variety of experiences ranging from very professional, respectful, to bullying behavior, and outright coercion.

    On the surface it appears the police officer acted in a more aggressive nature than necessary, perhaps not conducting himself in a professional manner or because of racist undertones; it isn't clear from what little I have read. I understand the charges were dismissed so perhaps this will open up the conversation about racism once again in this country. Having worked in the field of civil rights I know racism is alive and well in the USA.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  2. #32
    Senior Member BallentineChen's Avatar
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    When I'm driving in my tinted car and get pulled over I take special precautions. I roll down all of my windows, open up my sunroof, open my glove compartment, turn on all the lights, get out all my documentation before the cop arrives, and have my hands on the wheel by the time he has. The reason I do this is because I drive a tinted car and I know police are suspicious of tinted cars. I don't know what kind of police officer I'm going to get. I've had police officers mouth off at me for having a tinted car, and all I can do is try not to antagonize them. I've also had police officers that have thanked me for taking the steps that I do to accommodate them.
    "For a man who wants to make a profession of good in all regards must come to ruin among so many who are not good. Hence it is necessary to a prince, if he wants to maintain himself, to learn to be able not to be good, and to use this and not use it according to necessity."
    Niccolo Machiavelli

  3. #33
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I think pretty much anybody but a white man is a suspect. Some white men, too.

    The cops just seem really edgy lately in general.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I agree that we need to recognize this tendency within ourselves, and each other. We were raised within a culture having its own set of beliefs, fears, aspirations that is passed from generation to generation. It's naive to say we aren't impacted by all aspects of that culture, good and bad.

    I have had many experiences with police officers doing case work, working in the judicial system, and even encountering them during civil disobedience actions. Obviously, there has been great variety of experiences ranging from very professional, respectful, to bullying behavior, and outright coercion.

    On the surface it appears the police officer acted in a more aggressive nature than necessary, perhaps not conducting himself in a professional manner or because of racist undertones; it isn't clear from what little I have read. I understand the charges were dismissed so perhaps this will open up the conversation about racism once again in this country. Having worked in the field of civil rights I know racism is alive and well in the USA.
    Exactly.

    It's not the fact that these cops may or may not have been racists, because that's their business and we can identify the roots, but when they fuel those racist beliefs and make judgments off of them, it really grinds my gears.

    And it is very naive to think that this couldn't have been a racial issue. Really, you think you know the cops that well? You seriously don't think that cops aren't ever motivated by hatred, false judgment, selfishness, or prejudice? Well look again because these guys in black suits aren't all as friendly as we'd like to put them all out to be.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  5. #35
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    From my own experience I have asked for officer's badge numbers and names--I have even asked what law I was supposedly breaking (peaceful protest on public property) and was given several different answers, none mentioned were an actual statute which is what I wanted. The point being, I did ask, I asked several times, but wasn't arrested. Was that an issue of race or a more professional police officer? I find it very suspect that he is on his own property and questioned in such a way.

    Somewhere in the middle is usually the truth.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  6. #36
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm convinced after my recent experience with the cops that it's a police issue, not a race issue. Anybody who mouths off to the cops will get it. Even me, the opposite of a black man.
    Yea. I used to be all "fight the power" in college. As a result, I often gave off a detectable attitude to the police. I used to get a lot of crap for it. But, when I got older I realized that:

    1. Cops deal with everyone hating them.
    2. Cops are dealing with people at their worst.
    3. Cops have to worry about being reported.
    4. Cops have to help the same people who hate them.

    Being a cop is like any job. If I were a barista and someone was being a jerk, I would fuck up their coffee. If I were a cop and someone was being a jerk, I would stroke them a ticket and throw my weight around a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    This is a race issue, Tilty. Boston/Cambridge cops and locals are notorious for this. He did not mouth off to the cops, he asked them to provide their names and badge numbers. But of course, he says one thing and they say another. After knowing him personally and personally dealing with race relations in that city and around the University, I highly doubt their version of the events. But whatever. I'm not interested in arguing it.
    I've dealt with black cops and white cops. They all treat me the same, which is: I'm the cop. I'm in control. If you step out of line, I know what to do with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'm not negating that black people are hassled by the police. I'm just saying it doesn't matter who you are or what color you are, if you back talk the police in any way, you're likely to get it. In any way. Anything other than "Yes, sir" seems to make them go into orbit. That's my experience as a white woman.
    Right. If he had just showed his ID I'm sure there would have been no issue. But, he viewed it (understandably) as the result of some racism and went off, I imagine, since it confirms his view of the world.

    On the other hand, how do we know what really happened beyond the obvious facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    According to him, he invited them into his home and showed them his identification. It only turned ugly when they would not provide their own information.
    Why do cops provide identification? You see my cop car, you see my guns, you see my uniform. Asking for ID from a cop who is just responding to a 911 call is unnecessary and likely provocative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Jenocyde, it clearly IS the situation. He asked them why they were there. He asked them for their names and badge numbers. That seems reasonable to reasonable people, but to cops, it is challenging, and they always seem to go ballistic if you say anything but yes, sir. Whether you're black or white or male or female.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I think pretty much anybody but a white man is a suspect. Some white men, too.

    The cops just seem really edgy lately in general.
    Being a cop sucks. Dealing with cops sucks.

    In closing:

    1. We know racism exists. No one is claiming otherwise.
    2. This is whole situation is retarded.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #37
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    Just in from CNN-
    "That apology will never come from me as Jim Crowley, it won't come from me as sergeant in the Cambridge Police Department," Sgt. James Crowley told Boston radio station WEEI. "Whatever anybody else chooses to do in the name of the city of Cambridge or the Cambridge Police Department which are beyond my control, I don't worry about that. I know what I did was right. I have nothing to apologize for."

    Crowley also said he was exercising caution and is clearly not a racist based on his previous actions.

    Those actions, Crowley told the Boston Herald, include giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to former Boston Celtics star Reggie Lewis, who suffered a fatal heart attack in 1993 at Brandeis University when Crowley was a campus cop.

    "I wasn't working on Reggie Lewis the basketball star. I wasn't working on a black man," Crowley told the Boston Herald. "I was working on another human being."

    Gates was arrested last week at his home after a confrontation with Crowley. Cambridge authorities on Tuesday dropped disorderly conduct charges against Gates.

    Crowley also told WEEI that when he asked Gates to come out of his home, he thought a break-in had occurred or was still happening.

    "I didn't know who [Gates] was. I was by myself. I was the only police officer standing there, and I got a report of people breaking into a house," Crowley told WEEI. "That was for my safety first and foremost. I have to go home at night, I have three beautiful children and a wife who depend on me. So I had no other motive than to ensure my safety."

    Responding to a reporter's question on Gates' arrest, President Obama said Wednesday night that the Cambridge police "acted stupidly."

    Obama defended Gates while admitting that he may be "a little biased" because the professor is his friend.

    "But I think it's fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry; No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home; and, No. 3 ... that there's a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately."

    The incident shows "how race remains a factor in this society," Obama said.
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    Crowley told WEEI that he was "disappointed" that Obama interjected himself into the situation.

    "He's the president of the United States, and I support the president to a point," Crowley told WEEI. "I think it's disappointing that he waded into what should be a local issue and something that is -- really that plays out here. As he himself had said at the beginning of that press conference, he didn't know all the facts. He certainly doesn't based on those comments. I just think it was very disappointing."
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  8. #38
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    why would a supposedly famous african american studies professor want to stay at a place like boston and not move to a higher ranked african american studies department like berkeley or other schools on the west coast?

    boggles the mind

  9. #39
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    From that CNN piece, Crowley sounds like the most reasonable person. Never accusing Gates, simply justifying his state of mind at the time. Believe it or not, most people don't know who Henry Louis Gates is. Obama sounds like a dumbass for getting involved in something so minor.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #40
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    I heard the police report account of the ENTIRE exchange. What it boils down to is the police received a call from a neighbor who was profiling the black man as a potential robber trying to break into a home (which was actually the man's own home), and so the police came out to investigate as they are obliged to do. The officer was not threatening or rude in any way. He came to the property and questioned the professor about what he was doing there and who owned the house. The professor was defensive and rather hostile from the get go. Why was he so uncooperative? Because he's an old, likely bitter, black man whos been through it all and likely faced COUNTLESS instances of people profiling him just because he's black and having police hassle him for it. I should know, its happened to ME, a black man, many times.

    The exchange continued where the officer tried to gather info, and the professor was being belligerent. It got to the point where he was making a scene and disrespecting the officer, resulting in his arrest. Now, I fully sympathize with him being mad inside because of the profiling and the hassle of having police come to your house because some stupid s*** neighbor thought you were there to rob somebody by virtue of the fact that your skin is of a darker pigment. However, the way he acted was just asking to get him arrested. That was his fault, he shouldn't have acted that way.

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