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  1. #1
    heart on fire
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    Default Concerns about Obama's Science Czar

    Yeah, I know "Fox News" but they have the sources, it appears to be real.


    Obama's Science Czar Considered Forced Abortions, Sterilization as Population Growth Solutions

    John Holdren, director of the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy, considered compulsory abortions and other Draconian measures to shrink the human population in a 1977 science textbook.

    By Joseph Abrams

    FOXNews.com

    Tuesday, July 21, 2009
    (More at link, including PDF of the textbook source)

  2. #2
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    I would need to read the context of the passages in question to make sure he said what he is accused of saying (I'm too lazy to do that now), but if true, that's despicable. His 1986 statements also reveal alarmist tendencies in addition to a moral compass that's possibly on par with Peter Singer's.

  3. #3
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    The world population is one hell of an issue. Theoretical suggestions to solve said problem should not be demonized.
    Maybe it's not the best solution, but it could be part of one.
    The world needs population control. It's either that, or there's going to be huge problems.
    Have a little foresight. Morals and survival are not always compatible.
    Personally, I see the evolution and survival of the human race and our planet as more important than being against abortions or any other ridiculous notion.
    I think China, with their "one child per family" thing is pretty damn good for the world.
    Other countries should follow their good example. Whether you're communist, christian, right, left, liberal, green or a fascist, there is a point to it all.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  4. #4
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    He should have to answer these allegations formally. He could provide the context and go point-by-point to explain what he actually was advocating, because the compulsory stuff sounds like it was Paul Ehrlich's contribution. Of course, the fact that he did a ecological work with Paul Ehrlich is a big strike against him right off the bat.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #5
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    The world population is one hell of an issue. Theoretical suggestions to solve said problem should not be demonized.
    Maybe it's not the best solution, but it could be part of one.
    The world needs population control. It's either that, or there's going to be huge problems.
    Have a little foresight. Morals and survival are not always compatible.
    Personally, I see the evolution and survival of the human race and our planet as more important than being against abortions or any other ridiculous notion.
    I think China, with their "one child per family" thing is pretty damn good for the world.
    Other countries should follow their good example. Whether you're communist, christian, right, left, liberal, green or a fascist, there is a point to it all.

    This is completely and totally wrong. The world is vastly wealthier now than it was 40 years ago when Ehrlich was writing The Population Bomb. The only effective and humane population control is growth and spread of wealth. That has always led to long-term birth rate decline.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #6
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    I was thinking more about the planet. Is the emotional welfare of people (having kids) more important than preserving the only space rock that we have to live upon?
    I think not. And some people - on top of that - just should not be allowed to have kids in the first place. Not getting into further discussion since that would rapidly become politically incorrect enough to start some sort of catholic crusade against me.

    I have my opinion, and you can have yours. I disagree with you most of the time, but I still think you're a decent fellow in your own way. Hope you know that. I know for a fact that you're more morally correct than I am, but I still think I have the rational side of it all covered better.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #7
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I'm not phased. Looks to me like a case of reading to much into hypothesis, and not really understanding what a scientific academic does or where they come from.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #8
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I was thinking more about the planet. Is the emotional welfare of people (having kids) more important than preserving the only space rock that we have to live upon?
    I think not. And some people - on top of that - just should not be allowed to have kids in the first place. Not getting into further discussion since that would rapidly become politically incorrect enough to start some sort of catholic crusade against me.
    It's not about emotional welfare. It's about RIGHTS. You have the right to decide what size your family is, as long as you don't rely on the resources of the public to take care of them. The attitude that "some people should not be allowed to have kids in the first place" is simply frightening. "Fascist" is the word that first comes to mind.


    I have my opinion, and you can have yours. I disagree with you most of the time, but I still think you're a decent fellow in your own way. Hope you know that. I know for a fact that you're more morally correct than I am, but I still think I have the rational side of it all covered better.
    I appreciate the sentiment, but the disagreement on issues like this will be implacable. I don't think your opinion on this matter is rational in the least. It's certainly not based on historical trends.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #9
    Senior Member run's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It's not about emotional welfare. It's about RIGHTS. You have the right to decide what size your family is, as long as you don't rely on the resources of the public to take care of them. The attitude that "some people should not be allowed to have kids in the first place" is simply frightening. "Fascist" is the word that first comes to mind.
    Give me freedom or give me death.

  10. #10
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    I was thinking more about the planet. Is the emotional welfare of people (having kids) more important than preserving the only space rock that we have to live upon?
    I think not. And some people - on top of that - just should not be allowed to have kids in the first place. Not getting into further discussion since that would rapidly become politically incorrect enough to start some sort of catholic crusade against me.

    I have my opinion, and you can have yours. I disagree with you most of the time, but I still think you're a decent fellow in your own way. Hope you know that. I know for a fact that you're more morally correct than I am, but I still think I have the rational side of it all covered better.
    ...And since you posted a strong opinion on a public message board, it's acceptable to criticize it.
    You sound like a member of the nazi party, circa 1938
    You could volunteer for sterilization. Just to show people that it's not so bad...lead by example.

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