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  1. #71
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post

    Ps - England isn't that big either.
    Despite actual area there are still 50 million people and they're pretty smart. Now that power isn't necessarily dependent on natural resources and how big of an army you can amass, I wouldn't count them out.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #72
    Senior Member Dooraven's Avatar
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    Curzon I agree with most of your points, Australia was no where near formed by no murders (see: Stolen Generations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    But:
    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    Of course,
    The Tamils never kill the Sinhalese?
    Never heard of suicide bombers?
    Never heard of all the people the Tamil terrorists have killed have you?
    Calling the former LTTE as terrorists is about the same as calling all people who fight for a separate homeland as terrorists, they aren't even classified as terrorists by the Government of Sri Lanka (part of the peace negotiations that went on with the UNP government). They weren't classified as terrorists till the Rajiv Gandhi assassination.

    Its also ironic how they're being classified as terrorists now as they reformed themselves into a convectional fighting force with an air force, a navy and an army- as opposed to the time when they weren't considered terrorists yet did most of the terrorist definitions. It's about as valid as calling the PLO as a terrorist organization. Had the LTTE truly been a terrorist/ guerilla force as you claim, they would have disbanded and gone into hiding, instead they chose to retreat into held territory which ultimately lead to their military defeat.
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  3. #73
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Despite actual area there are still 50 million people and they're pretty smart. Now that power isn't necessarily dependent on natural resources and how big of an army you can amass, I wouldn't count them out.
    And the South Koreans aren't smart?

  4. #74
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    And the South Koreans aren't smart?
    I meant South Korea. Actually England and South Korea have about the same population size, so it might have been confusing.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #75
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I meant South Korea. Actually England and South Korea have about the same population size, so it might have been confusing.
    I see. It sounded like that from the comment you made.

  6. #76
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dooraven View Post
    Calling the former LTTE as terrorists is about the same as calling all people who fight for a separate homeland as terrorists
    Okay lets assume I agree with you here.

    Now lets take the post I made.

    I was actually trying to defend the Buddhists. Victor was implying by saying that the Buddhists are killing Tamils, that the Sinhalese were killing the Tamils randomly for Buddhism sake. Which is not true.

    That was the point I was trying to make.

  7. #77
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    The Tamils wanted their own nation called Ealam which is 1/3 the size of Sri Lanka.
    And the Sinhalese didn't want to give them a separate country in Sri Lanka.

    So the Tamils started a war. Killed 13 soldiers to prove a point. And a war broke out.

    Unfortunately for the Sri Lankan Sinhalese the Indian government started training and arming the Tamils Tigers. The Raw (research and analysis wing) is the brain child of the Tamil rebel movement. That is why it became so powerful. They had the backing of India.

    Since -
    India >>>> Sri Lanka

    So the Tamil rebel movement thrived........

    Get the picture?

    Don't believe me?

    Research and Analysis Wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #78
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Superpower? And a global one, yet.

    Macro changes in the Chinese state have an effect outside of China, but that doesn't make it a superpower, and given the Chinese national conceptional equation of interdependence to subjugation, it's tough to consider the Chinese nation on the world stage as much different from a hulking great butcher. That's not a superpower.

    What does China do for the world other than provide increasingly expensive cheap labour?
    Increasingly expensive cheap labor, that makes no sense.

    We increase the world's demand for everything, driving up economic growth for the world.

    Mao, and the Party's, contribution to the world is to allow that monolith to persist into the present day, with poorly conceived industrial muscle grafted on. China is like one giant anachronism, nonetheless present and skewing reality back to what it was.

    What alternative and better development are you suggesting?

  9. #79
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    So, Kalach, who do you think will be the next world power, then? India? South Korea? Brazil?
    Dunno. Whichever one has relevant resources and reach. A wild guess says the US will be at the top of the heap for a while to come yet.

    I'm under the impression China represents the world's longest lived totalitarian national system, and shows only some signs of eventually falling apart. For some reason or other, that stability seems to indicate a relatively benign world presence. They may blow a fuse and destabilise the whole world, but they don't appear to aim to, or have the ability to even conjure up systematic attempts to conceive of doing so. The most impressive international political posture China takes mostly is "You shouldn't hurt our feelings." More exactly, you shouldn't hurt our feelings or we'll kill more of our own people.

    Which is to say, if I may summarise my simplistic, ill-informed argument here, size aside, for lack of an actual world view that actually sees a world, China doesn't have a leadership role in this world.

    Size, however, is a reality. That will have an effect. Ya never know, the Confucian model could inch it's way toward the top of the world thinking. Except that the Confucian model doesn't involved much thinking, and is far more about stability than progress, whatever the Party says. (Progress is a buzz word grafted onto Confucianism in the absence of anything better.) More realistically.... dunno. Inertia and momentum will make some things happen.


    What world beaters come out of the Chinese system? What substance has it generated? Stability yields prosperity isn't a progressive idea. What's left? Only size?



    Postscript:

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Increasingly expensive cheap labor, that makes no sense.
    Over time, workplace reform is making Chinese labour more expensive. Still cheap, but not as cheap as Vietnamese or Cambodian. Factory owners have to pay slightly higher wages, provide slightly better accommodation. Currently factories in China are moving inland, out of Guangdong into Hunan, where it's cheaper and easier to flout workplace reform. Ironically, modernisation and the arrival of things like mobile phones increase the workers ability to organise. At spring festival they tell each other how shit their las year of work was and they all go looking for different jobs.... And after that... international capital goes looking for cheaper countries.


    What alternative and better development are you suggesting?
    None. Just observing that there is a hidden Chinese model, different from the standard conception of capitalism and development, not the same as "rapid development and industrialisation", and it has something to do with enduring Chinese culture, however maimed that is these days. And I wonder if that will not emerge more as time goes by, possibly as a positive force. Stone age culture that has been allowed to hobble forward, and which is perhaps nonetheless vital for sitting in the hearts of so many millions.

    or something. not totally sure what I'm getting at, or if it's anything other than romanticising the occidental. (Again.).
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  10. #80
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Dunno. Whichever one has relevant resources and reach. A wild guess says the US will be at the top of the heap for a while to come yet.

    I'm under the impression China represents the world's longest lived totalitarian national system, and shows only some signs of eventually falling apart. For some reason or other, that stability seems to indicate a relatively benign world presence. They may blow a fuse and destabilise the whole world, but they don't appear to aim to, or have the ability to even conjure up systematic attempts to conceive of doing so. The most impressive international political posture China takes mostly is "You shouldn't hurt our feelings." More exactly, you shouldn't hurt our feelings or we'll kill more of our own people.
    Which is to say, if I may summarise my simplistic, ill-informed argument here, size aside, for lack of an actual world view that actually sees a world, China doesn't have a leadership role in this world.

    Size, however, is a reality. That will have an effect. Ya never know, the Confucian model could inch it's way toward the top of the world thinking. Except that the Confucian model doesn't involved much thinking, and is far more about stability than progress, whatever the Party says. (Progress is a buzz word grafted onto Confucianism in the absence of anything better.) More realistically.... dunno. Inertia and momentum will make some things happen.


    What world beaters come out of the Chinese system? What substance has it generated? Stability yields prosperity isn't a progressive idea. What's left? Only size?



    Postscript:



    Over time, workplace reform is making Chinese labour more expensive. Still cheap, but not as cheap as Vietnamese or Cambodian. Factory owners have to pay slightly higher wages, provide slightly better accommodation. Currently factories in China are moving inland, out of Guangdong into Hunan, where it's cheaper and easier to flout workplace reform. Ironically, modernisation and the arrival of things like mobile phones increase the workers ability to organise. At spring festival they tell each other how shit their las year of work was and they all go looking for different jobs.... And after that... international capital goes looking for cheaper countries.




    None. Just observing that there is a hidden Chinese model, different from the standard conception of capitalism and development, not the same as "rapid development and industrialisation", and it has something to do with enduring Chinese culture, however maimed that is these days. And I wonder if that will not emerge more as time goes by, possibly as a positive force. Stone age culture that has been allowed to hobble forward, and which is perhaps nonetheless vital for sitting in the hearts of so many millions.

    or something. not totally sure what I'm getting at, or if it's anything other than romanticising the occidental. (Again.).

    I agree with the bolded part.
    We are pretty insecure as a nation, because we have been beaten up by european powers and Japan and that does not feel good.
    Being assertive is part of the response to this.


    Stability at all costs lead to an over authoritarian and rigid political system.
    Unity and order is stressed as a result.


    Anyway, about Mao, like violence said, China would have slip into more anarchy and violence if it wasn't because of Mao. Mao made some big mistakes, but he did put the country back into order. China was much better shape against the world in the 1950's than it was in Qing dynasty, where it was being beatened and raped and technologically inferior. And Mao laid the foundation of a strong modern state which made economic progress possible.

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