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  1. #61
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Hence Mao's existence would have prevented that from happening.
    Its a possibility, but so is my scenario. Also, a divided China with a north under Russian influence and direction rather than that of a competing Maoist ideology might have become more like East Germany than North Korea, resulting in a stronger united China today. Its also possible that a non-Maoist communist movement would have eventually conquered all of China, solidifying the global Communist movement rather than balancing the USSR against a large but stagnant PRC, leaving Mao inadvertently responsible for the effective end of Communism as a global threat to individual freedom worldwide.

    And of course, none of this probably matters in the end; you are debating against someone whose ancestors a.) chose independence rather than inclusion in a massive, culturally Anglo empire, and b.) emigrated to a different country under the logic that a state, or even a civilization, that oppresses them doesn't deserve their loyalty.

    Going back to your Korea example, its better to be a citizen of South Korea than to be a citizen of a Korea united under a North Korean regime.

  2. #62
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    To say Mao is a bad leader is stupid.
    Mao is one of the factors that china is one country, rather than several split up states like europe.
    Without Mao and Chiang, china might have stayed fragmented way into 21st century, spliting into many states.

    And chiang is far from democratic. Chiang is a fascist that only believes in a one party state. Freedom of speech was suppressed under his rule, and he was known to assasinate people that oppose him. The US help him because they prefer him over communism.

  3. #63
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Even today, China is much more prosperous than Taiwan.
    You can compare the high rises in Shanghai with the broken buildings in taiwan.

    If China didn't go communist, it might develop into a singapore style dictatorship rather than a democracy. what might happen is difficult to tell.

    Mao experimented with policies that made china backward, but he also united a fragmented nation and turn it into a superpower. I think when you ask any chinese, they will tell you the same thing. Uniting a large country such as China is not a easy job.

    Without superleaders like Mao and Chaing, china will split into many states for decades, even centuries like what happened in ancient history.

  4. #64
    Riva
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    The Buddha never reached the Enlightenment while Oz was founded by the English and Scottish Enlightenment.
    Lolz.
    You are entitled for your own opinion no matter how silly or strange it is as long as no one gets hurt directly or indirectly.
    But in this case if you do manage to convince someone that you are correct (although you are not) you are definitely hurting that individual from learning something.

    So Victor I think you should be a bit careful when you make such nice sentences. Although they are nice to read you might actually be hurting someone by making them believe that you are correct.



    So contrast Buddhist Sri Lanka and Enlightenment Oz.

    Quite unlike the religious USA, Oz gained her independence without killing anyone and united a whole Continent and half of another without killing anyone.
    What is Oz? Australia is it? because I have a lot to say about Australia before I let you get away with that Lie. But I need to know what Oz is 1st. I think you are referring to Australia?

    While the Buddhists of Sri Lanka, encouraged and backed by the Buddhist monks, have been killing Tamils for the last thirty years.
    Of course,
    The Tamils never kill the Sinhalese?
    Never heard of suicide bombers?
    Never heard of all the people the Tamil terrorists have killed have you?

    Of course you have.
    But revealing the whole story would be hard to you because it would not be easy to prove your points by telling the whole story.


    So when we do the body count, we find Mao to be the world's greatest mass murderer of his own people. And we find the Buddhists of Sri Lanka have been killing their own people for the past thirty years. While Oz gained her independence and united a whole Continent without killing anyone.
    The Buddhist of Sri Lanka has been fighting a war to not give away 1/3 of its country away to terrorists. And they did. And they won.


    The whole of the modern world is based on the Enlightenment while Mao has been upstaged by the capitalist roaders and Buddhism has yet to discover that killing is unreasonable.
    Yes you are right.

    Buddha was a mad fucker who loved to kill people.

    *high five victor*

    You just did it again.

  5. #65
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Mao is one of the factors that china is one country, rather than several split up states like europe.
    Comparing the difficulty of uniting China and uniting Europe is one of the stupidest things I've read around here.
    Please, rock on.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    Even today, China is much more prosperous than Taiwan.
    It's hard to be prosperous if most of the world doesn't recognize you as a sovereign state. Smaller territory, fewer population and no legitimation in the eyes of the public. Despite that, Taiwan is doing VERY well, especially compared to the region.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    I think when you ask any chinese, they will tell you the same thing.
    Sure. If they say otherwise, they'll disappear next day.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    To say Mao is a bad leader is stupid.
    It's a question of values. State what you consider "good leadership" first. I think good leadership is based on the ability to navigate on the small borderline of efficiency and the people's rights. From this standpoint, Mao fails as a leader.

    Read Weber.

  6. #66
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Violence_ View Post
    Mao Ze Dong may have been power hungry dictator and killed millions of his own people, but he wrenched a nation spinning out of control back to a state of order and stability, to which it then continued to re-develop back into a global superpower.
    Superpower? And a global one, yet.

    Macro changes in the Chinese state have an effect outside of China, but that doesn't make it a superpower, and given the Chinese national conceptional equation of interdependence to subjugation, it's tough to consider the Chinese nation on the world stage as much different from a hulking great butcher. That's not a superpower.

    What does China do for the world other than provide increasingly expensive cheap labour?


    Mao, and the Party's, contribution to the world is to allow that monolith to persist into the present day, with poorly conceived industrial muscle grafted on. China is like one giant anachronism, nonetheless present and skewing reality back to what it was.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #67
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curzon View Post
    What is Oz? Australia is it? because I have a lot to say about Australia before I let you get away with that Lie. But I need to know what Oz is 1st. I think you are referring to Australia?
    Oz is that magical land over the rainbow, you know, the one with the munchkins and the wizard and all of that. In a monumental treaty the Wizard managed to unite all of Gillikin, Munchkinland and The Viknus, without any war.

    However Oz is trying to eradicate its Animal citizenry. No other nation has declared this genocide yet so no one has tried to stop the atrocities, though.


    So, Kalach, who do you think will be the next world power, then? India? South Korea? Brazil?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #68
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Oz is that magical land over the rainbow, you know, the one with the munchkins and the wizard and all of that. In a monumental treaty the Wizard managed to unite all of Gillikin, Munchkinland and The Viknus, without any war.

    However Oz is trying to eradicate its Animal citizenry. No other nation has declared this genocide yet so no one has tried to stop the atrocities, though.


    So, Kalach, who do you think will be the next world power, then? India? South Korea? Brazil?
    Sadly I have never watched that film.


  9. #69
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post

    So, Kalach, who do you think will be the next world power, then? India? South Korea? Brazil?

    Isn't South Korea a way too small to be that ?

  10. #70
    Riva
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Isn't South Korea a way too small to be that ?
    Sex Joke

    The size doesn't matter my friend. It's the motion of the ocean!

    ----------------------

    Ps - England isn't that big either.

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