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  1. #41
    Senior Member _Violence_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    bull, there is no such thing as "like" a verry old man. either you are, or your are a fraud.
    "Likened." Analogous. Culture of five thousand years. Nothing is new anymore, mistakes have been made already.

  2. #42
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Violence_ View Post
    Such a bizarre Western perception.

    The way we view our society/nation is like a very old man... has seen the vigors of youth and the wisdom of old. Has seen joy and sorrow, the greatest of triumphs and the lowest failures. We do not pretend to always be successful or powerful, only that everything is a finite, nothing lasts forever, and the higher one rises, the harder they fall, eventually ALL will fall.
    Still, given the chance, I would prefer to grow up to become a wise, venerable old man than to die young because my society thinks like one.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #43
    Senior Member _Violence_'s Avatar
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    You realize, Cultural Revolution is long gone.

  4. #44
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Stalin and Mao were not exactly adhering to the values of Marxism
    This statement is amusing, given Marxism was never a system of values to begin with. It was the Truth, a system of materialist determinism purporting to be scientific and objective. In practice it follows from Marxism's own assumptions that anyone who disagrees with it needs not a refutation, but liquidation. After all, critics of Marxism were on the wrong side of History, of Progress, and were by definition greedy tools of the rich, who by definition use militarism and religion to keep the masses down. We're all puppets controlled by vast impersonal laws only an anointed few can intuit.

    Raymond Aron wrote a great analysis of this attitude in The Opium of the Intellectuals. This is was entire point of the show trials-- a Marxist society must show that the proletariat is necesarily right, even when it is wrong, because of the faith in historical, determinist laws. Everything has to happen the way it does, and therefore all events needed to be written into a narrative where the proletariat is the hero. And since the proletariat is always right, the Party is always right, since it acts on behalf of the proletariat, which will inherit History.

  5. #45
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Violence_ View Post
    Mao Ze Dong may have been power hungry dictator and killed millions of his own people, but he wrenched a nation spinning out of control back to a state of order and stability, to which it then continued to re-develop back into a global superpower.
    Mao retarded China's development for decades; it was Deng Xiaoping who mixed tyranny with national development. If Mao and the Communist hadn't won the civil war, then the rest of Chinese civilization might have developed more along the lines of Taiwan, and would probably have long since become the largest overall national economy (and possibly even a free country).

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Violence_ View Post
    Such a bizarre Western perception.
    We keep hearing about this five thousand year old civilization, and we play along because it flatters.

    But the 'five thousand years' is used in a similar way to the 'one billion muslims'.

    Both are used to intimidate and both are signs of weakness.

  7. #47

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    I vote the economy as the greatest mass murderer. Before that sectarianism.

    JHB you got Marxism wrong man, it did have an integral value orientation and that was romantic humanism, considering man a frustrated producer and capitalism the Frankenstein's monster of classical political economists.

    Its not explicit and Marx deliberately tries to obscure the facts of it because he was enthralled by scientism which shunned all values as metaphysical cantor but its there none the less. Deconstruct it and its there.

  8. #48
    Senior Member _Violence_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Mao retarded China's development for decades; it was Deng Xiaoping who mixed tyranny with national development. If Mao and the Communist hadn't won the civil war, then the rest of Chinese civilization might have developed more along the lines of Taiwan, and would probably have long since become the largest overall national economy (and possibly even a free country).
    Mao Ze Dongwas an idealist.

    Deng Xiao Ping tong zhe was a realist and implement economic reforms that led to many positive developments.

    We are as "free" as the Western world thinks they are "free."

    Just who is really free, I wonder...

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    We keep hearing about this five thousand year old civilization, and we play along because it flatters.

    But the 'five thousand years' is used in a similar way to the 'one billion muslims'.

    Both are used to intimidate and both are signs of weakness.
    ????????

    "Using silence to lead oneself onto the Dao."

    You think too much. You can delude yourself with visions of grandiose intellect, but you will never reach the Buddha nature that way.

    ???? - Merry Christmas Victor.

  9. #49
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Violence_ View Post
    You realize, Cultural Revolution is long gone.
    China is a big country, I'm sure no one would notice if a hundred million went missing.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Violence_ View Post
    you will never reach the Buddha nature that way.
    The Buddha never reached the Enlightenment while Oz was founded by the English and Scottish Enlightenment.

    So contrast Buddhist Sri Lanka and Enlightenment Oz.

    Quite unlike the religious USA, Oz gained her independence without killing anyone and united a whole Continent and half of another without killing anyone.

    While the Buddhists of Sri Lanka, encouraged and backed by the Buddhist monks, have been killing Tamils for the last thirty years.

    So when we do the body count, we find Mao to be the world's greatest mass murderer of his own people. And we find the Buddhists of Sri Lanka have been killing their own people for the past thirty years. While Oz gained her independence and united a whole Continent without killing anyone.

    The whole of the modern world is based on the Enlightenment while Mao has been upstaged by the capitalist roaders and Buddhism has yet to discover that killing is unreasonable.

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