User Tag List

First 34567 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 105

Thread: Libertarians?

  1. #41
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I assumed you were joking with "if most crimes weren't crimes" insinuating lack of law to justify libertarism as a whole. :P
    No, I wasn't joking. I meant decriminalizing drug use, prostitution and the like. It seems to work well enough in your country.

    In NY, we have a 3 strikes and you're out law. You get convicted 3 times, which is surprisingly easy if you are a certain color, and you go to jail for life. Yay for big government.

  2. #42
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    No, I wasn't joking. I meant decriminalizing drug use, prostitution and the like. It seems to work well enough in your country.

    In NY, we have a 3 strikes and you're out law. You get convicted 3 times, which is surprisingly easy if you are a certain color, and you go to jail for life. Yay for big government.
    Yeah well, here murderers get out in 4-15 years average.

    And Jock, I wasn't implying a perfectly non corrupt government, I just think there needs to be sufficient control from the general population towards the government towards everything else that comes back to the general population. This is a form of control I don't think the world can do without. And through libertarian governments, they would not have the sufficient resources to uphold that circle. And large financial bodies would also have no interest in upholding that circle. Which means money and power leaks away into other parts of the world and the general population would no doubt be worse off than before.

    And the biggest flaw for me with libertarism is their tax policy by the way. I find the other ideas appealing, but I just don't see how it can be put into practicality and work as intended. :P

    Also, I'm just putting forth my own view and responding to peoples posts.



    Edit: I have the right idea about libertariism right?

    - No forced taxes, free will donations.
    - Free economy.
    - Minimal goverment only in control of law, police and army.

    That's the libertarian view right? Maybe I translated the wrong idea to english? :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  3. #43
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Yeah well, here murderers get out in 4-15 years average.

    And Jock, I wasn't implying a perfectly non corrupt government, I just think there needs to be sufficient control from the general population towards the government towards everything else that comes back to the general population. This is a form of control I don't think the world can do without. And through libertarian governments, they would not have the sufficient resources to uphold that circle. And large financial bodies would also have no interest in upholding that circle. Which means money and power leaks away into other parts of the world and the general population would no doubt be worse off than before.

    And the biggest flaw for me with libertarism is their tax policy by the way. I find the other ideas appealing, but I just don't see how it can be put into practicality and work as intended. :P

    Also, I'm just putting forth my own view and responding to peoples posts.
    Fluff, I like and appreciate your views. Your serious responses are taken seriously.

    What part of the tax model does not appeal to you?

    Personally, I believe in a small tax on wages to pay for gov't infrastructure and a larger, fair tax on consumption, not earnings - that way even illegal immigrants and white collar criminals will pay their taxes every time they buy a pack of gum. But I think people in general will always fight over taxes.

    No system is perfect but I don't believe in staying the same because the alternative *may* be worse. Because it *may* also be better... But our American government is far overreaching its scope.

    I believe in government's job to protect it's citizens and that would include protecting its own people from predatory corporations, those that pollute national resources, etc... I am not advocating a lawless society.

    As far as the 4-15 year prison sentence for murderers, I guess we all have different views of that, as well. I see nothing wrong with capital punishment, but that's a different discussion for a different day.

  4. #44
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    I was under the assumption libertarians only pay what they believe the government needs out of free will. But no tax on anything else?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #45
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I was under the assumption libertarians only pay what they believe the government needs out of free will. But no tax on anything else?
    No, we need taxes, just more accountability. We have troops in over 130 countries and I am not comfortable paying for that. I have 3 businesses and I can't tell you the amount of taxes I pay just to exist, and then I pay taxes on my employee's salary, as well. Fine. Whatever.

    I am against a lot of public programs, but truth be told, we need roads and bridges. We need to pay our government officials and judges. Why on earth should we pay for things the government doesn't need?

    Taxes are not free will. If you want the benefit of living in this country, you should pay for it. But what we are paying for now is getting ridiculous. The amount of money we pay is outrageous. And I would let it slide if we were actually getting something from all this money, like health care for example... (not that I advocate gov't sponsored health care, but I would at least understand it if our existing taxes went to pay for that, but it doesn't)

  6. #46
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Hmm. I was taught differently in school then.

    Or have the wrong translation of dutch 'Libertarisme'. :P

    "Free-will" taxes would result in a world I described in my previous statements. I have very little doubt that it wouldn't. But if the government has sufficient funding to apply anough pressure to close the gap between the caste's in society. Then a balance could possibly be found. I'd still not support it entirely though.

    In the end, I am a strong believer that every living being should have the same power on how we are governed, despite social status. For as long as we can not be trusted to be just and fair. But I am liberal in my opinions. If we need to work on anything. It is transparancy of the economy resulting in an unbiased control for all consumers.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #47
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    I have definate (albeit moderate) libertarian leanings, with two important caveats;

    1.) I generally believe in gradualism, as libertarian ends require enabling conditions, the details of which will differ by country, and will constantly change within a country as well.

    2.) In the long-term, I think the means utilized matter more than the ends desired, so Constitutional concerns matter far more to me than any particular stance on most issues.

  8. #48
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post


    In the end, I am a strong believer that every living being should have the same power on how we are governed, despite social status.
    I agree completely. You sound like you are a Libertarian!

  9. #49
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I agree completely. You sound like you are a Libertarian!
    Almost everybody believe in this, it is just that there are differences in philosophy of how to get there.

  10. #50
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I agree completely. You sound like you are a Libertarian!

    I'm with Asocial on this one. I have my own opinions on how to get there. Perhaps I should start working on my own model. However, I've only the experience of the Netherlands in depth. I would lack the experience to model after the whole world. Unless I base the model on already formed biased opinions I hear from other people.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

Similar Threads

  1. The Honest-to-Satan Libertarian Test
    By Speed Gavroche in forum Online Personality Tests
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 02-03-2010, 10:01 AM
  2. More fascinating Libertarian stuff
    By Lateralus in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 101
    Last Post: 06-16-2008, 05:04 PM
  3. Libertarian Purity Test
    By Lateralus in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 04-23-2008, 05:24 PM
  4. I have no Libertarian Socialist!
    By booyalab in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-23-2008, 05:16 PM
  5. Engaging Economica on Libertarian Ideology
    By reason in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-25-2007, 08:39 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO