User Tag List

First 3456 Last

Results 41 to 50 of 60

  1. #41
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Please, state your opinions towards that statement, and give reasons.

    I'll give my own after the thread has gotten a little bit long.
    Group function excludes diversity.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    In what sense is it unnatural? Is farming unnatural? Are cities unnatural?
    Diversity, at least in the US, has been promoted through advertising/entertainment/etc, just turn on the television. The same can't be said about farming and cities. With farming and cities, people saw a clear advantage, so they were adopted. With diversity, we're sold an image.

    I see diversity as an inevitability of modern progress. If a particular country wants to ignore the challenges that it brings, it will be to its own detriment.

    More and more countries will be getting to the modern age (including the two most populated). We are more connected to the rest of the world than we have ever been. Both these trends will continue, FORCING us to work with different ethnicities and backgrounds. Do you disagree with any of these points?
    I'm not looking at it as just working with, but living with other ethnicities.

    I think using this inevitability to our advantage is better than shunning it, or simply ignoring that it exists.
    Who says you have to shun it? There is a middle ground.

    We have to get from "storming" to "performing," because some country will figure out how (if there aren't already many who have).
    What does this mean?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #43
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,905

    Default

    I believe, the optimal productivity could be achieved, if everyone had the same goal but could provide different ideas of how to get there. That is to say, I don't think people need, through and through, different wants to be able to provide different approaches. And to provide different approaches without having different wants is the best of both worlds. You have innovation and analysis, without aimlessness or conflict.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #44
    Senior Member BallentineChen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    152

    Default

    I agree with MP. But here diversity in skills is balanced by uniform goals.
    "For a man who wants to make a profession of good in all regards must come to ruin among so many who are not good. Hence it is necessary to a prince, if he wants to maintain himself, to learn to be able not to be good, and to use this and not use it according to necessity."
    Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #45
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I see diversity as an inevitability of modern progress. If a particular country wants to ignore the challenges that it brings, it will be to its own detriment.
    Cries of inevitability are the last refuge of failing ideas. Nothing is really inevitable except in retrospect, and even then. Sorry but history is a far more dynamic process than that.

  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,524

    Default Diversity or Division?

    I look around me and I see a Diversity Officer and many students from all parts of the world.

    And our government has a policy of Multi-culturalism.

    But still the students gather in their ethnic groups and form their own ethnic societies.

    So rather than having multi-culturalism, we have plural mono-culturalisms.

    We can't resist ethnic cults any more than we can resist the cult of MBTI.

    And all this at the tertiary level where we presuppose you have learnt your own culture at the primary and secondary levels and you have come here to transcend it.

    But there is no transcendence, no reciprocity, only a greedy grab for a piece of paper that is a ticket into the middle class.

    So we are not looking at diversity, we are looking at an atomized society based on the division of labour.

    We are not looking at diversity, we are looking at division.

    Divide and conquer.

  7. #47
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    6,387

    Default

    I think we are taking a rather simplistic view, if we are talking about racial diversity. Ok fine, you are dealing basically with whites/blacks/asians/latino, right? I want to know where I fit in, which table should I sit at, since I clearly have a limb in each category? As do a lot of people in this world. Even amongst "whites", Slavs are very different than Nordic people.

    I think division is shown more clearly among economic lines. Most will say that different ethnicities tend to belong to different socio-economic groups. But that really depends on what part of the country/world you are living in. In New York, most arabs are not that well off but then you go to Dubai... Or blacks in the government housing are not the well off, but the blacks in the Atlanta tend to be. So what exactly are we talking about here?

  8. #48
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I believe, the optimal productivity could be achieved, if everyone had the same goal but could provide different ideas of how to get there. That is to say, I don't think people need, through and through, different wants to be able to provide different approaches. And to provide different approaches without having different wants is the best of both worlds. You have innovation and analysis, without aimlessness or conflict.
    Another thing to consider is that diversity can benefit a population even when various parts of the population have goals which are at odds with each other. A common example is business competition. It would be to McDonald's advantage if every restaurant was a McDonald's. They would get every customer and could charge higher prices. However it is much more beneficial for society as a whole to have a wide variety of restaurants. McDonald's loses, but everybody else wins.

    Likewise it can be beneficial for a species to have genetic diversity even if it causes individual organisms to lose advantages. It can be beneficial for a society to have greater ethnic diversity even if that is detrimental to some members of the society. And so on....
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  9. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I believe, the optimal productivity could be achieved, if everyone had the same goal but could provide different ideas of how to get there. That is to say, I don't think people need, through and through, different wants to be able to provide different approaches. And to provide different approaches without having different wants is the best of both worlds. You have innovation and analysis, without aimlessness or conflict.
    You don't get very much innovation starting with uniform goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by BallentineChen View Post
    I agree with MP. But here diversity in skills is balanced by uniform goals.
    In workplaces where the work is creative output (like marketing, engineering, etc.) instead of manual work, the different values, and different takes on what goals should be are essential for innovation. You may have minor creativity, but not innovation with easy uniform goals. But "constructive confrontation" is vital to innovation. You can read many management books that suggest this. Andy Grove has two chapters back to back titled "Let Chaos Reign" and then "Reign Chaos In."

    Starting with uniform goals limits innovation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Diversity, at least in the US, has been promoted through advertising/entertainment/etc, just turn on the television. The same can't be said about farming and cities. With farming and cities, people saw a clear advantage, so they were adopted. With diversity, we're sold an image.
    Well, I argue the opposite. Of course there wasn't TV advertisement before the time of TV. But there were expectations to change.

    Hunters and gatherers were considered "savages" and were converted when assimilated. Even if they continued hunting and gathering, the needed to integrate into farm life.

    Also, there were plenty of cultural pressure "to go to the cities to find work." They WERE promoted, and even over-promoted as young people came to the cities and still did not find work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm not looking at it as just working with, but living with other ethnicities.
    So:
    1) do you believe that living with other ethnicities helps people work better with the ethnicities that were lived with?
    2) do you believe that working with other ethnicities helps people live better with the ethnicities that were worked with?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Who says you have to shun it? There is a middle ground.
    I thought "ignoring" it was the middle ground you had in mind. That's why I mentioned it. Perhaps we are in agreement.

    I believe we have to acknowledge that we are different, and those differences give us different perspectives. However, despite this, we can work together, and perhaps even work together even better because we are different over time because of our different perspectives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    What does this mean?
    I am referring to the Tuckman model for group functioning. I was applying it to neighborhoods and blocks working well.

    Stages of Team Development (Tuckman)

    We are at the point where as neighborhoods/blocks:
    1) we have various ideas that compete, often fiercely, for consideration
    2) there is conflict and polarization around interpersonal issues
    3) individuals are showing their personalities and confront each other's ideas and perspectiveour argument culture

    This is all quite normal and "storming" is a necessary phase to go through.

    Eventually we need to get to "Performing". the point where the bonds between people, despite different ethnicities, values, goals, etc are strong enough such that:
    1) We have functioning (peaceful and supportive) neighborhoods where our bonds help each other outneighborhood watches, lower crime, keep eyes on neighbors small children while they play, etc.
    2) Individuals know how they can contribute effectively using their own unique perspectives, and appreciate how others can as well.

    Essentially, we will have restored the bonding that Putnam says has deteriorated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Cries of inevitability are the last refuge of failing ideas. Nothing is really inevitable except in retrospect, and even then. Sorry but history is a far more dynamic process than that.
    "Inevitable" is an exaggeration, of course. My point is that globalization of our economies is a strong force, and it would be unwise of us to try to fight against this force. Do you disagree with this?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #50
    Sniffles
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    "Inevitable" is an exaggeration, of course. My point is that globalization of our economies is a strong force, and it would be unwise of us to try to fight against this force. Do you disagree with this?
    I disagree that we have to uncritically accept Globalization in its present form. There are several different ways Globalization can manifest itself, and the real issue is which way is best suited for the peoples of the world.

Similar Threads

  1. How easy is it for you to see your dominant function?
    By wolfy in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 11-24-2015, 04:06 PM
  2. Which function is responsible for coincidences ?
    By NK258 in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-27-2014, 12:23 PM
  3. [ENFJ] Judging who is good for you and who is not
    By lasdf23 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-18-2010, 12:31 PM
  4. Is there a function or a mix of functions that is responsible for this...
    By JustHer in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-17-2009, 10:40 AM
  5. Bacon is good for me!
    By stellar renegade in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-22-2009, 12:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO